With new tyres coming after the summer break, who does it help?

[Sieper]

It's 2022 tech.

I know, and they aren't adapting tech designed for 18" rims to 13" rims in a short period of time.

I took it as the design of the tread/sidewall interface as the only change. It might very well be just a different material insert before hitting the mold.

I think so too. I hope so at least. Just a few extra nylon mesh layers, or even just a few woven in strings at the boundary between thread and shoulder. I don’t know what it takes but their engineers will know the forces at play.

[dans79]

I just hope it won’t totally shuffle the balance of power. The thinner tread tires were also a big game changer.

A lot will depend on what they do to the tire. If they make the sidewall tougher without changing it's stiffness then it won't have much effect.

If they make it tougher and harder, that will probably make warmup even more difficult.

[Sieper]

I hope they will be doing the minimum to guarantee at least more resilience. I don’t want one team or the other to benefit from it. All teams have played a role in getting here. As does Pirelli.

They will need to do something as high speed blowouts are too dangerous to simply shrug the shoulders.

[senja]

I bet Pirelli and the FIA have known some teams were being naughty with the tire pressures for some time. Pirelli didn't come up with a new construction in under 3 weeks, that has to be something they've been working on for a while.

Or Pirelli knew that their tires are s**t, and they prepared better ones. And they just wait for opportunity to introduce them...

[Hoffman900]

I just hope it won’t totally shuffle the balance of power. The thinner tread tires were also a big game changer.

A lot will depend on what they do to the tire. If they make the sidewall tougher without changing it's stiffness then it won't have much effect.

If they make it tougher and harder, that will probably make warmup even more difficult.

Not if they're sliding because they can't get them to hook up!

IMO, I think Pirelli is inbetween a rock and a hard place, the cars are too heavy for their speed and they're tasked with making tires that wear out. I honestly am not sure that many other manufacturers would be interested in joining the fray if they opened it up... seems like a lot of headache and I'm not sure the ROI is there.

[pantherxxx]

I don't like in season changes that can give advantage or disadvantage to different teams. Especially now when we have finally a title fight, and it's not just mercedes dominating.

[Stu]

I expected as much, but was looking on speculation on who it may help most.

Handing Merc a .02s swing against RBR might just put us at hair-splitting Q3 sessions...

Yes, let's give Mercedes more in-season changed advantages. After nerfing pit stops and rear wings

Perhaps if Redbull stopped trying to cheat the regulations then these things wouldn’t need to be “nerfed”.

ALL of the teams are playing the all of the regulations (that is where the “unfair advantage” is achieved!!). This is caused by the way that the rules are framed, I wouldn’t mind betting that the highest achieving teams employ people whose sole job is to read (and re-read) the rules to see how they can gain advantage from interpretation and loopholes…


Loopholes is a really unfortunate term as it has negative connotations!

[El Scorchio]

Yes, let's give Mercedes more in-season changed advantages. After nerfing pit stops and rear wings

Perhaps if Redbull stopped trying to cheat the regulations then these things wouldn’t need to be “nerfed”.

ALL of the teams are playing the all of the regulations (that is where the “unfair advantage” is achieved!!). This is caused by the way that the rules are framed, I wouldn’t mind betting that the highest achieving teams employ people whose sole job is to read (and re-read) the rules to see how they can gain advantage from interpretation and loopholes…


Loopholes is a really unfortunate term as it has negative connotations!

Absolutely- and this is what gets completely lost in tribalism and subjectivity- they are ALL at it. We are talking teams of genius engineers here with the goal of pushing the envelope as far as possible without falling foul of the rules and regs. It's like a high stakes poker game. Win big with an idea that sticks, or get taken to the cleaners by one that gets taken away.

MB, RBR and Ferrari are at it the most, simply because they have the most brain and people power to work on these things as well as doing all the other things necessary to get a car on the road. The other teams with less can't dedicate as much to, let's call it 'genius innovation' so it happens on other cars less often. I don't doubt they have some killer ideas, but just not the time and resource to execute them.

DAS, flexing wings, blown diffusers should all be applauded as fabulous engineering ideas, and we should be able to separate that from the process of the regs catching up to them and eventually getting them written out as solutions without just crying 'cheat' at the ones which aren't on the cars we want them to be on.

[Zynerji]

Perhaps if Redbull stopped trying to cheat the regulations then these things wouldn’t need to be “nerfed”.

ALL of the teams are playing the all of the regulations (that is where the “unfair advantage” is achieved!!). This is caused by the way that the rules are framed, I wouldn’t mind betting that the highest achieving teams employ people whose sole job is to read (and re-read) the rules to see how they can gain advantage from interpretation and loopholes…


Loopholes is a really unfortunate term as it has negative connotations!

Absolutely- and this is what gets completely lost in tribalism and subjectivity- they are ALL at it. We are talking teams of genius engineers here with the goal of pushing the envelope as far as possible without falling foul of the rules and regs. It's like a high stakes poker game. Win big with an idea that sticks, or get taken to the cleaners by one that gets taken away.

MB, RBR and Ferrari are at it the most, simply because they have the most brain and people power to work on these things as well as doing all the other things necessary to get a car on the road. The other teams with less can't dedicate as much to, let's call it 'genius innovation' so it happens on other cars less often. I don't doubt they have some killer ideas, but just not the time and resource to execute them.

DAS, flexing wings, blown diffusers should all be applauded as fabulous engineering ideas, and we should be able to separate that from the process of the regs catching up to them and eventually getting them written out as solutions without just crying 'cheat' at the ones which aren't on the cars we want them to be on.

I think nothing should be banned (like DAS, TMD, etc). If those things are deemed unfair, they should just have to share the tech to keep it on their car. No sense wasting effort and engineering brilliance.

Better to penalize through sharing than shelving.

[El Scorchio]

ALL of the teams are playing the all of the regulations (that is where the “unfair advantage” is achieved!!). This is caused by the way that the rules are framed, I wouldn’t mind betting that the highest achieving teams employ people whose sole job is to read (and re-read) the rules to see how they can gain advantage from interpretation and loopholes…


Loopholes is a really unfortunate term as it has negative connotations!

Absolutely- and this is what gets completely lost in tribalism and subjectivity- they are ALL at it. We are talking teams of genius engineers here with the goal of pushing the envelope as far as possible without falling foul of the rules and regs. It's like a high stakes poker game. Win big with an idea that sticks, or get taken to the cleaners by one that gets taken away.

MB, RBR and Ferrari are at it the most, simply because they have the most brain and people power to work on these things as well as doing all the other things necessary to get a car on the road. The other teams with less can't dedicate as much to, let's call it 'genius innovation' so it happens on other cars less often. I don't doubt they have some killer ideas, but just not the time and resource to execute them.

DAS, flexing wings, blown diffusers should all be applauded as fabulous engineering ideas, and we should be able to separate that from the process of the regs catching up to them and eventually getting them written out as solutions without just crying 'cheat' at the ones which aren't on the cars we want them to be on.

I think nothing should be banned (like DAS, TMD, etc). If those things are deemed unfair, they should just have to share the tech to keep it on their car. No sense wasting effort and engineering brilliance.

Better to penalize through sharing than shelving.

I can't agree with that. The teams should be able to keep their secrets to themselves. Maybe share with the FIA if necessary for clarity but never to be forced to share with the other teams. That's just another step toward making it a spec series.

[Stu]

Absolutely- and this is what gets completely lost in tribalism and subjectivity- they are ALL at it. We are talking teams of genius engineers here with the goal of pushing the envelope as far as possible without falling foul of the rules and regs. It's like a high stakes poker game. Win big with an idea that sticks, or get taken to the cleaners by one that gets taken away.

MB, RBR and Ferrari are at it the most, simply because they have the most brain and people power to work on these things as well as doing all the other things necessary to get a car on the road. The other teams with less can't dedicate as much to, let's call it 'genius innovation' so it happens on other cars less often. I don't doubt they have some killer ideas, but just not the time and resource to execute them.

DAS, flexing wings, blown diffusers should all be applauded as fabulous engineering ideas, and we should be able to separate that from the process of the regs catching up to them and eventually getting them written out as solutions without just crying 'cheat' at the ones which aren't on the cars we want them to be on.

I think nothing should be banned (like DAS, TMD, etc). If those things are deemed unfair, they should just have to share the tech to keep it on their car. No sense wasting effort and engineering brilliance.

Better to penalize through sharing than shelving.

I can't agree with that. The teams should be able to keep their secrets to themselves. Maybe share with the FIA if necessary for clarity but never to be forced to share with the other teams. That's just another step toward making it a spec series.

I think that is exactly what happened with the Ferrari engine last year. The rule changes around fuel use:throttle suggests that rather than storing excess fuel (and then cooling it?) that was bandied about, when they were actually burning fuel disproportionately to the throttle position to charge the MGUh, enabling an electrical boost in traction zones. Which is a clever ‘solution’ (that WAS legal!), it also explains why they suffered so much when the NEW rules were applied…

[pantherxxx]

It looks like the new tires gave a massive advantage to Mercedes.