2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[RZS10]

Actual images

This is terrible because it ignores the change in camera position and angle so it massively distorts the track, as a result the lines they took aren't properly represented by it.

The method used is perfect for static cameras and maybe good enough for fixed cameras that are far away and don't swerve all that much.

[godlameroso]

It's not a road collision (and these days with dash cams, such incidents aren't as clear cut as they once were), and it's not "the real world" with regards to property damage. Both of those things are, yet again, red herrings and entirely irrelevant on the track.

If you want to apply road rules, both are guilty of driving at excessive speed in the UK. At 180mph, you're often looking at prison time. Still want to play the "road rules games"?

Sure, they are driving on a closed road, and safety is still important. Have a little empathy.

So you agree that road collisions and property damage aren't relevant?

Empathy? Max walked away and had a precautionary check up - one that was so worrisome that they took him to a hospital 40 miles away rather than the major accident unit in a hospital less than 16 miles away. Had he been injured then, yes, I'd be more concerned. Horner played the impact etc. for effect and some people have taken him at face value. The guy's a politician and is playing to get his opponent hamstrung. Nothing more.

Toto does not do politics, he just comes out stating publicly that he will use any advantage even political to win. I mean at least Horner isn't so blunt about it. So what, it's sport, and psychology is part of it, can't stand the heat?

I agree that property damage and collisions are relevant. Had a Giovinazzi destroyed Bottas car in Imola, instead of a future Mercedes star, I don't think Mr.Wolff would have been as cool and composed for the cameras.

[godlameroso]

You forgot:

Red Bull: 51g, man! 51g!
FIA: Oh, wow, you're so right. Ban him for life and strip him of all his titles!

You realize, this opens the door for retaliation, would you have the same outlook if Hamilton had a 51G shunt and Verstappen only gets a 10 second penalty and goes on to win regardless? The precedent has been set, you can take a driver out of the race and all it costs you is a 10 second penalty. With that attitude I wonder why Verstappen bothered to give the place back in Bahrain and not just try to win by 5+ seconds.

Good chance he would be fined (and/or penalised) for unsportmanship behaviour and misuse of the rules. They could try it that way... just don't expect no saction will follow after.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, if Hamilton can get away with it, why can't Verstappen?

[dans79]

I mean at least Horner isn't so blunt about it.

imo, that's cowardice!

[Sieper]

Actual images

This is terrible because it ignores the change in camera position and angle so it massively distorts the track, as a result the lines they took aren't properly represented by it.

The method used is perfect for static cameras and maybe good enough for fixed cameras that are far away and don't swerve all that much.

It is very clear.

[godlameroso]

I mean at least Horner isn't so blunt about it.

imo, that's cowardice!

IMO that's being strategic. You never let your competitor know your next move. Cowardice is not confronting people directly, but rather skirting around the issue, beating around the bush.

We both know little if anything else will happen, Hamilton won't have his win stripped from him or anything like that. Worst case scenario he gets a few penalty points on his license. This is just psychological warfare, it's nowhere near as bad as gangstalking nobodies.

[Just_a_fan]

You realize, this opens the door for retaliation, would you have the same outlook if Hamilton had a 51G shunt and Verstappen only gets a 10 second penalty and goes on to win regardless? The precedent has been set, you can take a driver out of the race and all it costs you is a 10 second penalty. With that attitude I wonder why Verstappen bothered to give the place back in Bahrain and not just try to win by 5+ seconds.

Good chance he would be fined (and/or penalised) for unsportmanship behaviour and misuse of the rules. They could try it that way... just don't expect no saction will follow after.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, if Hamilton can get away with it, why can't Verstappen?

Key difference - intent.

If Max intentionally hits Hamilton then he's going to get a big smack from the stewards.

Anyone that thinks Hamilton intended to put Max in the wall is deluded beyond help.

[Just_a_fan]

Sure, they are driving on a closed road, and safety is still important. Have a little empathy.

So you agree that road collisions and property damage aren't relevant?

Empathy? Max walked away and had a precautionary check up - one that was so worrisome that they took him to a hospital 40 miles away rather than the major accident unit in a hospital less than 16 miles away. Had he been injured then, yes, I'd be more concerned. Horner played the impact etc. for effect and some people have taken him at face value. The guy's a politician and is playing to get his opponent hamstrung. Nothing more.

Toto does not do politics, he just comes out stating publicly that he will use any advantage even political to win. I mean at least Horner isn't so blunt about it.

Horner's approach is most unsavoury. It's the whiny little moans that annoy. Just come out and say it man!

[Just_a_fan]

Actual images

This is terrible because it ignores the change in camera position and angle so it massively distorts the track, as a result the lines they took aren't properly represented by it.

The method used is perfect for static cameras and maybe good enough for fixed cameras that are far away and don't swerve all that much.

It is very clear.

Yes, it clearly shows Hamilton along side as they entered the cornering phase. Which, according to the FIA's guidelines, gives him the corner.

[RZS10]

This hearing on thursday is just the review of the (necessary) new evidence anyways, right?
RBR will have to show some relevant new info and we'll know more Thursday evening - the outcomes being that the evidence isn't good enough for a review or a new meeting of the stewards if i'm not mistaken.

Actual images
[useless video]

This is terrible because it ignores the change in camera position and angle so it massively distorts the track, as a result the lines they took aren't properly represented by it.

The method used is perfect for static cameras and maybe good enough for fixed cameras that are far away and don't swerve all that much.

It is very clear.

What is clear?
The way the outlines of the track move already shows that it's not worth the time that was invested in putting it together, same as the resulting shape of the corner - if you'd really insist i could trace the lines of the cars and it would show that they're not quite right.

[godlameroso]

Good chance he would be fined (and/or penalised) for unsportmanship behaviour and misuse of the rules. They could try it that way... just don't expect no saction will follow after.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, if Hamilton can get away with it, why can't Verstappen?

Key difference - intent.

If Max intentionally hits Hamilton then he's going to get a big smack from the stewards.

Anyone that thinks Hamilton intended to put Max in the wall is deluded beyond help.

It's impossible to prove intent in this instance objectively unless we can read Hamilton's mind. The only objective ruling we have is that Hamilton was deemed more at fault. Another scenario can just as likely play out with the roles reversed. I doubt RBR or Verstappen would stoop to that level, just stating that perspective is important. Just like Mr. Wolff is protective over his team and his people, so are RBR. Empathy comes in the form of being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. If RBR had punted Hamilton in the wall the tone of the posters here would be markedly different.

In any case, for the umpteeth time, I believe nothing will change, this is back and forth verbal jabbing, and is just part of the game.

[Jolle]

You realize, this opens the door for retaliation, would you have the same outlook if Hamilton had a 51G shunt and Verstappen only gets a 10 second penalty and goes on to win regardless? The precedent has been set, you can take a driver out of the race and all it costs you is a 10 second penalty. With that attitude I wonder why Verstappen bothered to give the place back in Bahrain and not just try to win by 5+ seconds.

Good chance he would be fined (and/or penalised) for unsportmanship behaviour and misuse of the rules. They could try it that way... just don't expect no saction will follow after.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, if Hamilton can get away with it, why can't Verstappen?

to use a penalty to overtake, in this case, overtake outside tracklimits, knowing you will beat the 5 second penalty, is unsportmanship. That means you can't defend from an overtake like that.

[godlameroso]

Good chance he would be fined (and/or penalised) for unsportmanship behaviour and misuse of the rules. They could try it that way... just don't expect no saction will follow after.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, if Hamilton can get away with it, why can't Verstappen?

to use a penalty to overtake, in this case, overtake outside tracklimits, knowing you will beat the 5 second penalty, is unsportmanship. That means you can't defend from an overtake like that.

Yeah, and because of that, Verstappen/RBR gave the place back, they want to win the right way.

[NathanOlder]

You realize, this opens the door for retaliation, would you have the same outlook if Hamilton had a 51G shunt and Verstappen only gets a 10 second penalty and goes on to win regardless? The precedent has been set, you can take a driver out of the race and all it costs you is a 10 second penalty. With that attitude I wonder why Verstappen bothered to give the place back in Bahrain and not just try to win by 5+ seconds.

Retaliation? By Max on Lewis or by someone in here on me for making a joke?

If the former, then he'll get DSQ like Schuie did. If the latter, then people need to get a life.

Retaliation in the sense that Verstappen can put Hamilton in the wall in the same manner and it's just a 10 second penalty. Just make it look like a racing incident, and no problems.

Max had the chance 24hrs before the incident. It didn't happen because Lewis knew only a mad man would try turning in on a car inside you and hope it disappears.

[dans79]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, if Hamilton can get away with it, why can't Verstappen?

to use a penalty to overtake, in this case, overtake outside tracklimits, knowing you will beat the 5 second penalty, is unsportmanship. That means you can't defend from an overtake like that.

Yeah, and because of that, Verstappen/RBR gave the place back, they want to win the right way.

Um, that's a strait up fantasy!

Max wanted to keep the place because he thought he could pull a 5 second gap and thus negate the penalty. He even said so over the radio!