2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

[godlameroso]

Can we leave the Max vs Lewis crap at the door before we have even started this time please?

Edit: Looks like the mods did that for me! Thank you guys.

Looks like the track is similar to Hungary in it's characteristics, lots of corners with zero breaks for the drivers.

There's no real bocht from 3 to 7.

[nzjrs]

The court dismissed a protest from an environmental action group regarding the impact of nitrogen emissions from the GP on the surrounding nature. That should clear any potential legal hurdles that could still obstruct the event.

Nitrogen!?!? Like runoff from construction materials and landscaping?

[Juzh]

It'll be interesting to see if red bull managed to sort out that absurd understeer they were experiencing in hungary when they bolted on maximum wing. I think we'll know after fp2 already based on driver comments and car behaviour. If they haven't then I expect hamilton to run and hide as this track is more of less hungaroring 2.0 but with just a bit less straights.

[godlameroso]

The court dismissed a protest from an environmental action group regarding the impact of nitrogen emissions from the GP on the surrounding nature. That should clear any potential legal hurdles that could still obstruct the event.

Nitrogen!?!? Like runoff from construction materials and landscaping?

Oh no, not an element that already comprises ~3/4ths of the air we breathe, red tape red tape.

[godlameroso]

It'll be interesting to see if red bull managed to sort out that absurd understeer they were experiencing in hungary when they bolted on maximum wing. I think we'll know after fp2 already based on driver comments and car behaviour. If they haven't then I expect hamilton to run and hide as this track is more of less hungaroring 2.0 but with just a bit less straights.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DChemTech]

The court dismissed a protest from an environmental action group regarding the impact of nitrogen emissions from the GP on the surrounding nature. That should clear any potential legal hurdles that could still obstruct the event.

Nitrogen!?!? Like runoff from consultation materials and landscaping?

Yes, well, 'nitrogen' here is used as a proxy for NOx/ammonia. Mostly from the traffic, from what I gather.
The main issue is that in the Netherlands years of mismanagement regarding these nitrogen species are now biting us in the ass. For years, we've been emitting way above the thresholds, because the government decided that "current excesses can be compensated by future reductions" (without any guarantees that those future reductions would take place). This leniency has resulted in Dutch nature being overgrown with blackberries and nettles by now - and some year or two ago, a court reading killed this government policy.

Eversince, we're in trouble. The major source of nitrogen emissions is agriculture, but try to limit farmers in their business, and the streets of our cities are full of tractor blockades. Also, they very much tend to go after and intimidate the messengers (scientists) - so we're stuck on that front. This is affecting/blocking a lot of other things, like construction projects that are direly needed, even if they are modest emissions overall. And, in this case, it was used to try and block the F1 event. The court judged that indeed the race does put additional pressure on the already precarious environmental state the dunes are in - but judged that it is a minor contribution compared to other sources, and the economic impact of a last-minute cancellation would be huge. So, we proceed.

[Just_a_fan]

The court dismissed a protest from an environmental action group regarding the impact of nitrogen emissions from the GP on the surrounding nature. That should clear any potential legal hurdles that could still obstruct the event.

Nitrogen!?!? Like runoff from construction materials and landscaping?

Oh no, not an element that already comprises ~3/4ths of the air we breathe, red tape red tape.

I think they're worried about NOx rather than N2. The former is not nice at any time really, the latter is ok at 1bar but less good when in variable pressure environments.

[Wouter]

Several fans had their picture taken with Vettel today, who explored Zandvoort with Hanna and the children on the bike.
The first photo was with a fan at a butcher shop and next to it with a small fan at a restaurant.
They all said what a nice guy he is.

.....

[Just_a_fan]

Several fans had their picture taken with Vettel today,[...]
They all said what a nice guy he is.

I used to get annoyed with Vettel in his Red Bull days with that damned finger and his weird exclamations when he won etc. Silly, I know. I thought also thought things like his messing around with the finishing markers after his penalty was childish. But it was heat of the moment so fair enough

These days, the guy comes across as a decent chap that one would happily spend time with. He's shown some real class too with moments like Spa this weekend.

I guess that's the difference between someone under pressure to win and someone who is just happy to be driving. A bit like Alonso these days really.

[NathanOlder]

Looks like overtakes will be at premium here. Usually that way in sims. Quali will be fun though. Very Hungary-like.

Yeah it really is. Even in cars that can follow a lot closer than F1 cars it's still damn hard to pass. Hopefully the DRS is powerful with the cars running high downforce. So maybe we will be pleasantly surprised and with the banking to help, we may get some overtaking.

fingers crossed.

[BosF1]

Can we leave the Max vs Lewis crap at the door before we have even started this time please?

Edit: Looks like the mods did that for me! Thank you guys.

Looks like the track is similar to Hungary in it's characteristics, lots of corners with zero breaks for the drivers.

There's no real bocht from 3 to 7.

Well done.

[MtthsMlw]

Several fans had their picture taken with Vettel today, who explored Zandvoort with Hanna and the children on the bike.
The first photo was with a fan at a butcher shop and next to it with a small fan at a restaurant.
They all said what a nice guy he is.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-IPtMDXEAI ... me=360x360 ..... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-IPtMWWQAM ... me=360x360

Looks like he's the fan on the second one

[godlameroso]

Some further notes on the track. Overcut will work around here because of the tires and how they wear. I got 28 laps out of the mediums before they started to go off, the biggest issue with the softs will be temperature management, I attempted one qualifying style lap and got a low 1:12, so I'm guessing that's like FP1 time or something.

If you thought Hungary was exhausting behind the wheel, boy you ain't seen nothing yet. I was actually tired from concentrating so hard for just 35 laps, the drivers have to do that in the actual car twice as long, so hats off to their fitness, they're certainly going to earn their paychecks this race.

[TNTHead]

The court dismissed a protest from an environmental action group regarding the impact of nitrogen emissions from the GP on the surrounding nature. That should clear any potential legal hurdles that could still obstruct the event.

Nitrogen!?!? Like runoff from consultation materials and landscaping?

Yes, well, 'nitrogen' here is used as a proxy for NOx/ammonia. Mostly from the traffic, from what I gather.
The main issue is that in the Netherlands years of mismanagement regarding these nitrogen species are now biting us in the ass. For years, we've been emitting way above the thresholds, because the government decided that "current excesses can be compensated by future reductions" (without any guarantees that those future reductions would take place). This leniency has resulted in Dutch nature being overgrown with blackberries and nettles by now - and some year or two ago, a court reading killed this government policy.

Eversince, we're in trouble. The major source of nitrogen emissions is agriculture, but try to limit farmers in their business, and the streets of our cities are full of tractor blockades. Also, they very much tend to go after and intimidate the messengers (scientists) - so we're stuck on that front. This is affecting/blocking a lot of other things, like construction projects that are direly needed, even if they are modest emissions overall. And, in this case, it was used to try and block the F1 event. The court judged that indeed the race does put additional pressure on the already precarious environmental state the dunes are in - but judged that it is a minor contribution compared to other sources, and the economic impact of a last-minute cancellation would be huge. So, we proceed.

In addition: point is that the circuit is situated in the middle of a 'natura2000' area (which is prescribed by EU law) which is considered sensitive to (among others) nitrogenoxide overload. Against the background of what DChemTech already pointed out (that even the slightest amount of calculated nitrogenoxide is prohibited and some building activities at tens of km away from N2000 area are frustrated), this seems an awkward situation. Colleagues of mine have done the nitrogen oxide calculations for the circuit (as well as other environmental studies), I understand from them that the already permitted race activities are enough to include F1. Therefore the environmental groups may be only trying to get some media airtime with this protest.

[NL_Fer]

I can’t imagin this weekend generating anymore NOx than, any other weekend with beach weather in Zandvoort