Pirelli 2013

[turbof1]

The problem is that even though Whiting allowed it, it isn't automatically allowed or conforming with the rules. Remember Spa 2008; hamilton was given the green light from Whiting to overtake raikkonen at the next corner, even though he cut the previous one. The fia later that day refuted that, going right against Whiting.

That same can and probably will happen today.

[Huntresa]

The problem is that even though Whiting allowed it, it isn't automatically allowed or conforming with the rules. Remember Spa 2008; hamilton was given the green light from Whiting to overtake raikkonen at the next corner, even though he cut the previous one. The fia later that day refuted that, going right against Whiting.

That same can and probably will happen today.

Yeah but the FIA cant deny they knew about the test cause thats obvious, so the question is why didnt they act as the governing body ?

We cant have a governing body who doesnt do anything unless someone tells them something. Like if a team would suddenly start using a complete different engine and if no one protest the FIA wouldnt do anything then or ?

[astracrazy]

The problem is that even though Whiting allowed it, it isn't automatically allowed or conforming with the rules. Remember Spa 2008; hamilton was given the green light from Whiting to overtake raikkonen at the next corner, even though he cut the previous one. The fia later that day refuted that, going right against Whiting.

That same can and probably will happen today.

this is what i don't understand is why the teams keep going to charlie. this and what you have mentioned isn't the only times he says something is ok then the fia say no its not.

[turbof1]

We'll see. Mercedes is now up.

[Tim.Wright]

i don't get why people say this is a Merc issue.

Mercedes ran a 2013 car, and this isnt allowed. Simple.

Whether they thought it was illegal or not is completely irrelevant. You can't use ignorance as a defence.

Whether Pirelli said this or that is also irrelevant. It was Mercs car, Mercs team Mercs drivers. Merc are the entrant and they are the ones bound by the sporting regs.

Whether it was approved by the FIA or not is also irrelevant. As pointed out before, this may have been done incorrectly. If they test, they break the rules. No one person in the FIA can make an exception to this.

The above points are for another discussion on another day. Today, the FIA are only interested in knowing if Mercedes broke the rules. Not why.

[Huntresa]

I assume Mercedez will do the line where they say Pirelli did the test and it was a Pirelli test, cause i cant see them going any other line.

[Cam]

If anything the FIA should be fined for not doing their work...

The police don't walk around saying "you're legal", they do nothing until you break the law.

[Huntresa]

If anything the FIA should be fined for not doing their work...

The police don't walk around saying "you're legal", they do nothing until you break the law.

Yeah but the FIA didnt do anything when they knew Merc broke the rules, THATS MY POINT!

[astracrazy]

i don't get why people say this is a Merc issue.

Mercedes ran a 2013 car, and this isnt allowed. Simple.

Whether they thought it was illegal or not is completely irrelevant. You can't use ignorance as a defence.

Whether Pirelli said this or that is also irrelevant. It was Mercs car, Mercs team Mercs drivers. Merc are the entrant and they are the ones bound by the sporting regs.

Whether it was approved by the FIA or not is also irrelevant. As pointed out before, this may have been done incorrectly. If they test, they break the rules. No one person in the FIA can make an exception to this.

The above points are for another discussion on another day. Today, the FIA are only interested in knowing if Mercedes broke the rules. Not why.

i get what your saying. but are the fia saying that it would have been ok to run the 2013 car if all teams were invited? then if that is the case then its not mercs fault pirelli didn't invite all the teams. I agree, merc have been ignorant but at the same time the water is very murky

[Huntresa]

i don't get why people say this is a Merc issue.

Mercedes ran a 2013 car, and this isnt allowed. Simple.

Whether they thought it was illegal or not is completely irrelevant. You can't use ignorance as a defence.

Whether Pirelli said this or that is also irrelevant. It was Mercs car, Mercs team Mercs drivers. Merc are the entrant and they are the ones bound by the sporting regs.

Whether it was approved by the FIA or not is also irrelevant. As pointed out before, this may have been done incorrectly. If they test, they break the rules. No one person in the FIA can make an exception to this.

The above points are for another discussion on another day. Today, the FIA are only interested in knowing if Mercedes broke the rules. Not why.

i get what your saying. but are the fia saying that it would have been ok to run the 2013 car if all teams were invited? then if that is the case then its not mercs fault pirelli didn't invite all the teams. I agree, merc have been ignorant but at the same time the water is very murky

But the FIA are treating and did treat the phone call to Charlie as if the merc were running the test and therefor they should have asked/invited the teams from the FIA standpoint.

[Cam]

If anything the FIA should be fined for not doing their work...

The police don't walk around saying "you're legal", they do nothing until you break the law.

Yeah but the FIA didnt do anything when they knew Merc broke the rules, THATS MY POINT!

Go back and read the FIA statements. They had no idea that the test happened, only that it could be feasible.

And with one of the key issues of the case believed to relate to approval it may have had from Whiting, the FIA's legal representative Mark Howard QC made it clear that only the World Motor Sport Council would have the right to waive the rules.

"Whether or not Whiting consented, it is irrelevant, because testing in relation to Article 22 is a breach, unless it [a rule change] is granted by the World Motor Sport Council," he said.

Howard revealed that Whiting was first phoned by Mercedes team manager Ron Meadows on May 2 about the possibility of running a 2013 car, with team principal Ross Brawn holding a follow-up conversation later in the day.

Howard added: "Whiting was asked a general and non-specific question - the general question on the permissibility of using a 2013 car.

[wunderkind]

If anything the FIA should be fined for not doing their work...

The police don't walk around saying "you're legal", they do nothing until you break the law.

Yeah but the FIA didnt do anything when they knew Merc broke the rules, THATS MY POINT!

That's indeed the point. The FIA have had ample time to act on the matter immediately after the Barcelona race, during the private test, and immediately after the test.

Basically, the Charlie Whiting and Sebastian Bernard gave their view without giving an official consent and Brawn took their word to the bank and did the test.

It's a cock-up by the FIA. The bigger issue for F1 now is that the FIA's word is no longer good enough and any decision should now be referred to the World Motor Sports Council.

[Juzh]

If anything the FIA should be fined for not doing their work...

The police don't walk around saying "you're legal", they do nothing until you break the law.

Yeah but the FIA didnt do anything when they knew Merc broke the rules, THATS MY POINT!

That's because they didn't know. When the police is told about a potential murderer they also go and investigate and take measures if necessary. Same thing happened in this case. FIA has been informed and they acted upon it.

[Blanchimont]

Yeah but the FIA didnt do anything when they knew Merc broke the rules, THATS MY POINT!

But do we know at which point the FIA knew, that Mercedes and Pirelli actually did a test with a 2013 car and did not inform all the other teams? Only with this information available the FIA would be able to investigate.

[astracrazy]

But the FIA are treating and did treat the phone call to Charlie as if the merc were running the test and therefor they should have asked/invited the teams from the FIA standpoint.

I agree thats prob what they are doing. But in reality it was more this is whats being proposed is it ok? the fia say yes aslong as all teams have been invited. Merc assume they have (by Pirelli)