Final 2010 Entry List & 2011 Tender

[WhiteBlue]

FIA contract are worthless anyway, Toyota signed the agreement and they pulled out. USF1 signed the agreement and now there not in it.

Add to that, their procedures, that they claim need to be protected, are applied inconsistently too - Sauber received an entry with no tender process.

Is that not precedent for FIA being able to award StefanGP a 2010 grid slot?

(I meantioned this in the StefanGP thread, but it probably makes more sense here..)

1. I don't understand the criticism of the FiA with regard to the Toyota and USF1 licenses. How can the FiA be responsible for a licensee deciding not to fulfill the Concord contract? The licensee should be criticised!

2. Peter Sauber had been a Concord participant from 1991 to 2005 in his own right and with the same team a minority share holder with BMW 2006-2009. There were surely special conditions. Formally BMW had failed to sign the Concord agreement in time. This is why his application was technically treated as a new one (he lost all the points money from FOM) but the other Concord participants (teams and FOM) decided to recognize his special status.

3. Stefanovic has no racing pedigree, not even GP2 or in a spec series. His finances are dubious. His employment practises are provocative. So he cannot expect to be treated with the same priviledges that Peter Sauber has earned.

[raceman]

2. Peter Sauber had been a Concord participant from 1991 to 2005 in his own right and with the same team a minority share holder with BMW 2006-2009. There were surely special conditions. Formally BMW had failed to sign the Concord agreement in time. This is why his application was technically treated as a new one (he lost all the points money from FOM) but the other Concord participants (teams and FOM) decided to recognize his special status.

errmmm

just to receive that money, don't you think they have opted not to change the name of the company participating in the 2010 Championship?? I guess FOM pays to the company (the entity) that entered itself in the FIA F1 World Championship - whoever maybe the owner!

clever move by Sauber, eh?

[gridwalker]

1 Jenson Button (GB) McLaren-Mercedes
2 Lewis Hamilton (GB) McLaren-Mercedes
3 Michael Schumacher (Ger) Mercedes
4 Nico Rosberg (Ger) Mercedes
5 Sebastian Vettel (Ger) Red Bull-Renault
6 Mark Webber (Aus) Red Bull-Renault
7 Felipe Massa (Brz) Ferrari
8 Fernando Alonso (Spa) Ferrari
9 Rubens Barrichello (Brz) Williams-Cosworth
10 Nico Hulkenberg (Ger) Williams-Cosworth
11 Robert Kubica (Pol) Renault
12 Vitaly Petrov (Rus) Renault
14 Adrian Sutil (Ger) Force India-Mercedes
15 Vitantonio Luzzi (Ita) Force India-Mercedes
16 Sébastien Buemi (Swi) Toro Rosso-Ferrari
17 Jaime Alguersuari (Spa) Toro Rosso-Ferrari
18 Jarno Trulli (Ita) Lotus-Cosworth
19 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth
20 Bruno Senna (Brz) HRT-Cosworth
21 TBA HRT-Cosworth
22 Pedro de la Rosa (Spa) BMW Sauber-Ferrari
23 Kamui Kobayashi (JPN) BMW Sauber-Ferrari
25 Timo Glock (Ger) Virgin-Cosworth
26 Lucas di Grassi (Brz) Virgin-Cosworth

Now, I am well aware why there is no car 13 on this list, but would anyone care to enlighten me why there is no car 24?

[WhiteBlue]

1 Jenson Button (GB) McLaren-Mercedes
2 Lewis Hamilton (GB) McLaren-Mercedes
3 Michael Schumacher (Ger) Mercedes
4 Nico Rosberg (Ger) Mercedes
5 Sebastian Vettel (Ger) Red Bull-Renault
6 Mark Webber (Aus) Red Bull-Renault
7 Felipe Massa (Brz) Ferrari
8 Fernando Alonso (Spa) Ferrari
9 Rubens Barrichello (Brz) Williams-Cosworth
10 Nico Hulkenberg (Ger) Williams-Cosworth
11 Robert Kubica (Pol) Renault
12 Vitaly Petrov (Rus) Renault
14 Adrian Sutil (Ger) Force India-Mercedes
15 Vitantonio Luzzi (Ita) Force India-Mercedes
16 Sébastien Buemi (Swi) Toro Rosso-Ferrari
17 Jaime Alguersuari (Spa) Toro Rosso-Ferrari
18 Jarno Trulli (Ita) Lotus-Cosworth
19 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth
20 Bruno Senna (Brz) HRT-Cosworth
21 TBA HRT-Cosworth
22 Pedro de la Rosa (Spa) BMW Sauber-Ferrari
23 Kamui Kobayashi (JPN) BMW Sauber-Ferrari
25 Timo Glock (Ger) Virgin-Cosworth
26 Lucas di Grassi (Brz) Virgin-Cosworth

Now, I am well aware why there is no car 13 on this list, but would anyone care to enlighten me why there is no car 24?

You got the wrong list. This is a screen shot of the real McCoy. Somebody probably made a typo.

[astracrazy]

FIA contract are worthless anyway, Toyota signed the agreement and they pulled out. USF1 signed the agreement and now there not in it.

Add to that, their procedures, that they claim need to be protected, are applied inconsistently too - Sauber received an entry with no tender process.

Is that not precedent for FIA being able to award StefanGP a 2010 grid slot?

(I meantioned this in the StefanGP thread, but it probably makes more sense here..)

1. I don't understand the criticism of the FiA with regard to the Toyota and USF1 licenses. How can the FiA be responsible for a licensee deciding not to fulfill the Concord contract? The licensee should be criticised!

It makes the agreement worthless regardless if it is the FIA or teams not sticking to it. USF1 should not be considered into next years grid for failing to with hold the agreement to enter this year and was there a punishment for toyota signing and then pulling out? I can't remember but i don't think there was...

[Fil]

FIA contract are worthless anyway, Toyota signed the agreement and they pulled out. USF1 signed the agreement and now there not in it.

Add to that, their procedures, that they claim need to be protected, are applied inconsistently too - Sauber received an entry with no tender process.

Is that not precedent for FIA being able to award StefanGP a 2010 grid slot?

(I meantioned this in the StefanGP thread, but it probably makes more sense here..)

I don't understand the criticism of the FiA with regard to the Toyota and USF1 licenses. How can the FiA be responsible for a licensee deciding not to fulfill the Concord contract? The licensee should be criticised!

No criticism of the FIA here.
And yes, i have criticised how BMW & Toyota's left the sport plenty of times. And have been consistently very heavy on USF1 for a long time.
So i agree with you there, the licensees should be blamed for their breaches of Concorde.


Sauber's admittance with no FIA procedures, proves said procedures aren't set in stone like Todt has used as an excuse against SGP's admittance.

All i am saying is that StefanGP still has a chance. That is my only point.

[WhiteBlue]

2. Peter Sauber had been a Concord participant from 1991 to 2005 in his own right and with the same team a minority share holder with BMW 2006-2009. There were surely special conditions. Formally BMW had failed to sign the Concord agreement in time. This is why his application was technically treated as a new one (he lost all the points money from FOM) but the other Concord participants (teams and FOM) decided to recognize his special status.

errmmm

just to receive that money, don't you think they have opted not to change the name of the company participating in the 2010 Championship?? I guess FOM pays to the company (the entity) that entered itself in the FIA F1 World Championship - whoever maybe the owner!

clever move by Sauber, eh?

Try to get money out of Bernie and we speak again. I'm sure you will find it as hard as Peter Sauber to take something from Bernie that he ownes contractually.

The BMW moniker simply stays because the team has not yet found a title sponsor. When that happens they will apply for a name change and based on the Concord rules that will be granted. A double name change first dropping BMW and then adding the new Sponsor may be risky and is expensive. So it is simply a method to run with the lowest cost and Concord formalities.

[manchild]

Perhaps USF1 and SGP should merge?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5C5Zk4kobo[/youtube]

[WhiteBlue]

Sauber's admittance with no FIA procedures, proves said procedures aren't set in stone like Todt has used as an excuse against SGP's admittance.

All i am saying is that StefanGP still has a chance. That is my only point.

Sauber has made a special late application which has been treated with care and after longer consultations with the other Concord signatories it was decided to award Peter Sauber's team the right to a first reserve slot based on earned priviledges which I already described. This meant he would automatically get an entry if a team failed (as Toyota did) or if the F1 Commission and WMSC decided to increase the team number to 14. The Stefanovic case is completely different. At least one signatory (Ferrari) has already publicly indicated that there are objections to grant special treatment to Stefanovic. This is no big surprise considering Mr. Stefanivic uses every opportunity to piss off the PTB.

[Fil]

Ah, ok i think i get it now. I appreciate the explanation WB!

So if you have all the teams' support, and have the FIA onside, they can turn a blind eye to their procedures & regulations.

But if one team doesn't support you, or you have aggravated the FIA, the FIA must protect their procedures & regulations.


Makes sense. Well i change my stance then. Stefanovic hasn't sucked up to the FIA so the team has no chance of making the Bahrain grid!

[astracrazy]

If you were the FIA, what would your selection process be to avoid situations like USF1? We know they are looking at changing in for 2011 so what would you do?

Hopefully somebody can post how they done it for this year so we can discuss what we would change.

[gibells]

Well I for one would stilupate that the Racing Team must have at least 3 years experience in either ALMS, GP2, or Indy for example. Something to at least prove they are a credible outfit.

[pgj]

Well I for one would stilupate that the Racing Team must have at least 3 years experience in either ALMS, GP2, or Indy for example. Something to at least prove they are a credible outfit.

I agree with that. I would also put a similar stipulation on team owners and directors having three years experience of working in the examples stated or F1.

[Pandamasque]

Oh come on. Does anybody here think that FIA honestly made a mistake thinking that USF1 and Campos would do better than Lola and Prodrive?

No need to create some special rules to avoid looking like fools in 2011. just select the best contender w/o thinking how politically beneficial that team would be, or in which team Mosley's old friends work. Not being corrupt and just doing the job would be enough.

[axle]

USF1 was entirely a marketing exercise...that's why it was included...no other reason.

Going for racing teams and not pandering to marketing wishes would be a good start next time.