Pirelli 2013

[strad]

I rather have 4 or 5 teams fighting over positions with these tyres then i have 2 teams dominating every other race which is what we had before.

It's a meritocracy and if ya can't claw your way up you deserve to wither and die.
Of course I'd rather see half a dozen actually fighting, but not in some phonied up fake racing situation,,then I'd rather have two or three at the top..
This can only come from kids who grew up under this nobody loses,,feel good society.
I want the cream to rise to the top..not standardized boredom.

[fiohaa]

i just watched half the race. turned off half way through to watch some news.
i mean christ.......

how was it NOT a procession???? ALL the overtakes were from people on different phases of tyre wear i.e. the soft starters in the top 10 coming back through passing guys on worn mediums.
the only battle that i could see before i turned off was kimi v lewis.

i just cannot understand, i literally cannot get my head around how 'proper f1 fans' (youd have to be relatively speaking, if youre on this forum talking about f1) are enjoying it. I just don't get it.

not once were any drivers racing. all of them running to controlled times to make sure the tyres last. The DRS was ridiculous as well, you had Ham desperately weaving trying some sort of defense.
Yeh fine, plenty of overtaking, but overtaking which required little effort from the parties involved.

one of the notable changes of position was vettel leapfrogging hulkenberg, and where did that happen? thats right, in the pits.
ill watch the 2nd half of the race tomorrow to see if the guys on softs at the end had any chance but regardless, the drivers aren't in control anyway.....

[fiohaa]

If that's what it takes to excite, how did you make it as a fan before Pirelli? Or did you just really want to be a F1 fan?

Eh what? For me specific 50% or even more is from the technical side of this sport for me, the racing is fun, even in yesteryears, excluding the obv boring schumi era. But as i said i prefer more ppl and teams to fight then less, nothing else.

oh yeah thats right, the boring schumi era.
97 - flat out battle between him and villeuenve to the last race.
98-99-00 - flat out battle between ferrari and mclaren
01,02 - definitely boring
03- 3 way battle between ferrari mclaren and williams for the title, decided at last race.
04 - boring
05 - alonso v kimi for title, both teams on the limit
06 - amazing duel between alonso and schumi for the title, both drivers and cars on the ragged edge, every lap, every race.

yeh you're right, it was boring wasn't it.
its so clear that F1 has been completely dumbed down for casual armchair viewers who just want to see pretty cars going past each other, and people who consider themselves 'knowledgable fans' have been sucked into it.
which only leaves me with one conclusion, you were never fans of actual racing, drivers pushing the limits.

webber agrees. so there.

[Huntresa]

If that's what it takes to excite, how did you make it as a fan before Pirelli? Or did you just really want to be a F1 fan?

Eh what? For me specific 50% or even more is from the technical side of this sport for me, the racing is fun, even in yesteryears, excluding the obv boring schumi era. But as i said i prefer more ppl and teams to fight then less, nothing else.

oh yeah thats right, the boring schumi era.
97 - flat out battle between him and villeuenve to the last race.
98-99-00 - flat out battle between ferrari and mclaren
01,02 - definitely boring
03- 3 way battle between ferrari mclaren and williams for the title, decided at last race.
04 - boring
05 - alonso v kimi for title, both teams on the limit
06 - amazing duel between alonso and schumi for the title, both drivers and cars on the ragged edge, every lap, every race.

yeh you're right, it was boring wasn't it.
its so clear that F1 has been completely dumbed down for casual armchair viewers who just want to see pretty cars going past each other, and people who consider themselves 'knowledgable fans' have been sucked into it.
which only leaves me with one conclusion, you were never fans of actual racing, drivers pushing the limits.

webber agrees. so there.

When i said Schumi Era i specifically meant the years he won 5 in a row, being 00-04. I loved 98 and 99, i was a huge Hakkinen fan back then.

But if we are to speak about his entire career from the start ofc not every season was boring, but his entire career wasnt an era, so when i use the word schumi era and when i hear other ppl use it i mean and i think 00-04

[abw]

its so clear that F1 has been completely dumbed down for casual armchair viewers who just want to see pretty cars going past each other, and people who consider themselves 'knowledgable fans' have been sucked into it.
which only leaves me with one conclusion, you were never fans of actual racing, drivers pushing the limits.

webber agrees. so there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22145394

Some hark back to the 'tyre-war' era of the late 1990s and early 2000s as an example of drivers being able to push to the limit throughout, but those who were there say that isn't the case either.

Raikkonen said: "If you take six or 10 years ago still you could not always push 100%. It's normal. These tyres are very good in qualifying with grip and in some places you have to look after them a little bit more than others, but it's not any different from last year so I don't really understand why people are complaining so much."

BREAKING: Opinions differ. Those who are prospering from the rules have no problem with them. Those who are not prospering complain.

[fiohaa]

its so clear that F1 has been completely dumbed down for casual armchair viewers who just want to see pretty cars going past each other, and people who consider themselves 'knowledgable fans' have been sucked into it.
which only leaves me with one conclusion, you were never fans of actual racing, drivers pushing the limits.

webber agrees. so there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22145394

Some hark back to the 'tyre-war' era of the late 1990s and early 2000s as an example of drivers being able to push to the limit throughout, but those who were there say that isn't the case either.

Raikkonen said: "If you take six or 10 years ago still you could not always push 100%. It's normal. These tyres are very good in qualifying with grip and in some places you have to look after them a little bit more than others, but it's not any different from last year so I don't really understand why people are complaining so much."

BREAKING: Opinions differ. Those who are prospering from the rules have no problem with them. Those who are not prospering complain.

can you explain what kimi means? because i can't?

Vettel says this, in the same article:
"As Vettel put it: "I'm not sure it's that great for the people to watch because there are a lot of overtakings that are pretty straightforward because in the end you are racing yourself and just try to make it to the end as fast as you can. What I mean is look after the tyres, try to manage the gaps.
"You wave the people by or they wave you by - as in they don't resist - because there is not much point because you slow yourself down.
"That is how racing is these days but nonetheless it is the same for everyone and three guys were better than us today.""

6-10 years ago....pretty sure everyone was driving flat out lights to flag. there might have been the odd occassion that they had to turn engines down for whatever reason, or they were on inters and had to make them last due to weather conditions, but generally speaking they would have been on it.

most of the rhetoric of the drivers, especially Mark Webber, who has Clearly said that 'Its not like it used to be' makes it clear that before they were able to push the limits most, if not all of the time.
i dont see how you can use that Kimi quote and go 'Oh look see they weren't pushing lol'...........when they obviously were. its absurd.

bbc is pathetic as a source of info, they go 'those that were there say............' and then fish out a one line sentence from one driver, and one that is'nt the most talkative or descriptive at best - Great.
Well i can string out for you a long list of quotes from Vettel, Webber, Hamilton, Button, Schumacher.

[fiohaa]

BREAKING: Opinions differ. Those who are prospering from the rules have no problem with them. Those who are not prospering complain.

well Webber and Hamilton and Vettel are doing pretty well in the championship, all things considered, and they are still complaining. So that statement is clearly not true.

to be honest i shouldnt even be using them to back up any of my arguments, they are an unreliable biased source anyway, so the fact that they are willing to step out their media comfort zone and say anything remotely negative about the sport says a lot for how bad it actually is, for racing drivers, and for fans of Real f1 racing.

[Just_a_fan]

6-10 years ago....pretty sure everyone was driving flat out lights to flag. there might have been the odd occassion that they had to turn engines down for whatever reason, or they were on inters and had to make them last due to weather conditions, but generally speaking they would have been on it.

A driver who was driving at the time says differently. A driver who won the title during that period 6-10 years ago says differently. Hmm, who do I believe? You or a title-winning F1 driver? Tricky...

You are becoming a one trick pony on this site. All you seem to do is moan about the tyres and claim that anyone who disagrees with you is not a real fan of racing. We all get it - you're not a happy bunny. Any chance you can talk about something else for a while? Perhaps you should complain to the FIA directly as I'm not sure they're members of this forum so your comments probably aren't getting to them.

(from a fan of F1 who presumably has only recently started watching and must have imagined the last 30 years of F1 races he watched...)

[Huntresa]

its so clear that F1 has been completely dumbed down for casual armchair viewers who just want to see pretty cars going past each other, and people who consider themselves 'knowledgable fans' have been sucked into it.
which only leaves me with one conclusion, you were never fans of actual racing, drivers pushing the limits.

webber agrees. so there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22145394

Some hark back to the 'tyre-war' era of the late 1990s and early 2000s as an example of drivers being able to push to the limit throughout, but those who were there say that isn't the case either.

Raikkonen said: "If you take six or 10 years ago still you could not always push 100%. It's normal. These tyres are very good in qualifying with grip and in some places you have to look after them a little bit more than others, but it's not any different from last year so I don't really understand why people are complaining so much."

BREAKING: Opinions differ. Those who are prospering from the rules have no problem with them. Those who are not prospering complain.

can you explain what kimi means? because i can't?

Vettel says this, in the same article:
"As Vettel put it: "I'm not sure it's that great for the people to watch because there are a lot of overtakings that are pretty straightforward because in the end you are racing yourself and just try to make it to the end as fast as you can. What I mean is look after the tyres, try to manage the gaps.
"You wave the people by or they wave you by - as in they don't resist - because there is not much point because you slow yourself down.
"That is how racing is these days but nonetheless it is the same for everyone and three guys were better than us today.""

6-10 years ago....pretty sure everyone was driving flat out lights to flag. there might have been the odd occassion that they had to turn engines down for whatever reason, or they were on inters and had to make them last due to weather conditions, but generally speaking they would have been on it.

most of the rhetoric of the drivers, especially Mark Webber, who has Clearly said that 'Its not like it used to be' makes it clear that before they were able to push the limits most, if not all of the time.
i dont see how you can use that Kimi quote and go 'Oh look see they weren't pushing lol'...........when they obviously were. its absurd.

bbc is pathetic as a source of info, they go 'those that were there say............' and then fish out a one line sentence from one driver, and one that is'nt the most talkative or descriptive at best - Great.
Well i can string out for you a long list of quotes from Vettel, Webber, Hamilton, Button, Schumacher.

6-10 years ago you drove flatout BETWEEN fuel stops, not tyre stops, tyres were just something you put on when refueling cause why not when you have the time, they were made to be awesome between pit stops not over 25 laps or so.

[Dragonfly]

6-10 years ago you drove flatout BETWEEN fuel stops, not tyre stops, tyres were just something you put on when refueling cause why not when you have the time, they were made to be awesome between pit stops not over 25 laps or so.

Race distance hasn't changed.
The number of pit stops has not changed or changed insignificantly.
Tyres had grooves, now they are slicks.
The only thing that changed is refueling is gone. That makes some difference but stints between tyre stops now are more or less the same number over the same distance. But current tyres hardly can endure a stint without nursing or even pampering them. A brake lock is fatal now.
The difference is that in order to get to the finish they have to pace themselves a lot. Driving some pre-calculated strategy which eventually will materialize into a desired finishing position.
The whole thing is turning into some kind of chess game played blindfolded. On the surface people see many passes, yes, passes not overtaking and winning a position, and think this is real racing. Teams are handicapped as never before after doing their best to make good cars only to find that tyres do not allow to unfold the potential of the car even with the presence of other limitations like engine and gearbox life.
The two compound rule was introduced under pressure from Bridgestone on pure economical grounds and yet noone thought about it with the change of the supplier.
The single aim of all this is to ensure no team or driver drives away in the points at least until midseason. Who can guarantee that in the second half Pirelli do not make some modifications to the compounds so that the teams with better cars start to benefit more and this is explained with the claim that they "started to understand the tyres more?
And why on earth the supplier decides which compounds to bring on which track? This opens a wide gate for manipulations, equivalent to arranging the result of a match.

[fiohaa]

A driver who was driving at the time says differently. A driver who won the title during that period 6-10 years ago says differently. Hmm, who do I believe? You or a title-winning F1 driver? Tricky...

You are becoming a one trick pony on this site. All you seem to do is moan about the tyres and claim that anyone who disagrees with you is not a real fan of racing. We all get it - you're not a happy bunny. Any chance you can talk about something else for a while? Perhaps you should complain to the FIA directly as I'm not sure they're members of this forum so your comments probably aren't getting to them.

(from a fan of F1 who presumably has only recently started watching and must have imagined the last 30 years of F1 races he watched...)

i clearly laid out the reasons why Kimi's short sentence cannot really be used to suggest that they weren't having to drive 100%, when all the evidence points to the contrary + testimony from about 5 drivers in the last 2 races alone.

i also said in another post that you cannot strictly use driver comment anyway, due to the level of bias involved, but as things stand there are more drivers who have vocalized dissatisfaction to the current system then those who haven't.
and yes.....i would rather form my own opinion based on available evidence, then simply use 'official' quotes by some racing drivers to dictate my entire thinking.

and i duno what F1 you were watching but when refuelling was around between 1994 till what...2010, and apart from 2005 where there was that odd single set for the race scenario, its clear that tyres were Never a limiting factor. And even then, in 2005,....Michelin built tyres that lasted fully anyway, so you still had a fantastic straight fight between kimi and alonso. There might have been one or 2 oddball races and things like US GP with the michelin fiasco but i cannot recall a time during those years where drivers had to pace themselves, and follow a controlled target lap time (as said by both Button and Webber) to ensure that tyres lasted a stint.

i remember there'd be occassions might have come in for new tyres specifically, because they chose to do a 1 stopper versus 2 stops or something, and play the long game, but the KEY DiFFERENCE in that scenario is it was entirely up to each individual team what they wanted to do, strategy wise. If they thought they could gain more time by staying out and not encountering traffic, they could CHOOSE to do so by putting a load of fuel in and running the tyres down (they certainly didn't have a 'cliff' element about them either).

Here its not, it is a lottery, in that None of the teams know how long the tyres will last, and ALL of them drive at a conservative pace, to see how it pans out. That is unprecedented.

ive been watching f1 since 94, and the driver testimonials from that era seem to backup what i watched and believe happened during that time...plus all the video evidence....from..........every race.

[MOWOG]

Clearly, there is a broad range of opinions on this issue, much as there is a broad range of opinions as to whether GWB was a mass murderer/war criminal or a candidate for sainthood.

But the bottom line, for me, is that Pirelli is acting as tire supplier for F1 for one reason and one reason only: To sell tires to those who watch the races. If that is the case, then their strategy has failed miserably. Given the choice I would first buy a used set of off brand tires on Craigslist for my own personal car than spend my money for a set of Pirelli tires that would begin to degrade significantly within a few miles.

Can you image the derision of other drivers on the road as my brand new Pirellis started throwing off huge chunks of tread the first time they encountered a highway entry or exit ramp?

Nope. Note to Pirelli. Having paid close attention for the past three seasons, I can guaran-damn-tee you that no Pirelli tires will EVER find a home on any car of mine. :-" To put it another way, your marketing strategy has been an unmitigated disaster.

[strad]

Jeeeez... Where to start?
First..If you say you wouldn't buy Pirelli's for your road car because of the fact that they supply a tire to F1 that degrades...just as mandated. Somehow you figure they are going to produce a similar for the public...well..you are just beyond all help and you should not be in charge of buying tires.
Now in case you haven't over the years noticed but what Kimi says in instances like the mentioned tend to be flippant and full of bs and bravado and to be taken with a grain of salt.
What's the point of mandatory use of tires unrelated to the cars set up? They just happen to be the tires available that weekend?
This is not racing.

[fiohaa]

You are becoming a one trick pony on this site. All you seem to do is moan about the tyres and claim that anyone who disagrees with you is not a real fan of racing. We all get it - you're not a happy bunny. Any chance you can talk about something else for a while?)

what else is there to talk about.........since tyres are the single biggest dominating issue in f1 at the moment, and its all you hear, even in commentary. i wish there was something else to talk about.

[Jersey Tom]

First..If you say you wouldn't buy Pirelli's for your road car because of the fact that they supply a tire to F1 that degrades...just as mandated. Somehow you figure they are going to produce a similar for the public...well..you are just beyond all help and you should not be in charge of buying tires.

By that line of reason, why bother even being in F1 if you're Pirelli? Why the marketing exposure if we know that their road and race tire developments are wholly separate ?