Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

Well, thanks for the comment.

If this is an excuse, you have to think I write "in spanish". You wouldn't believe how hard I try NOT to use latin words nor spanish grammar ("preocupation" for "worry", "explained" for "told", "I have had" for "I had", not so many "that"s, etc.)

In spanish, most english sounds very simple. It sounds like "barking" or that's what Caesar said, long time ago. It forces you to miss the fine points. I'm sure latin speakers get what I try to say. How you tell the difference between "ser" and "estar"?

Sorry, anyway. Point taken. There is people here translating from English to their own languages. Many things must be lost during that.

English native speakers must think I do it on purpose. It's not what I intend. I use bold type to mark the phrases that sum up the post. Modbaraban has complained already. I think he has not used them to skip through the post.

I won't deprive myself of writing more stuff like this, :) but I swear I will study rules for "Simple English Wikipedia". Next time I will erase everything except words in bold. No more thre sy-lla-bles words. No more phrases over six words.

Thanks again, here you have a new version:

- Bernie pushed Max as president to get money. Lots of money.
- Max is penyless and depends on Ecclestone
- Max has some independence now
- Bernie must have another person as candidate
- Bernie has already be a traitor to other president
- Bernie must know Max little secrets
- Bernie is the one that can deal with others in case Max is fired
- A "short election" only benefits Bernie

The ACC does not need my input. They know what to do: they'll bend over, like I do sometimes. They don't cringe any more because there aren't thinner carpets (as we say in spanish). They'll play Bernie's game. I think we do the same in this very thread. :wink:

WhiteBlue can be right, anyway. Perhaps there is a "Third Man". It will dawn and we will see (another spanish phrase).
Ciro

Project Four
Project Four
0
Joined: 24 Jan 2008, 23:28

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

First F1 driver to come out strongly against Mosley. Should have guessed that it would be most un-PC driver and the one who does speak his mind. Step Mr Mark Webber.

Mark Webber has accused Max Mosley of bringing the sport into disrepute following allegations about his private life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 355991.stm

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

Ciro, I can't see how Bernie profits from Max concluding his term early. Why would he not play his game at the time when succession will come anyway?

Bernie has the 100 year deal anyway and thanks to Max he hasn't got to deal with the team veto in rule discussions anymore. so one hassle is gone. but he has the residual little problem that in commercial issues single teams still got muscle and can stall things. He has ridiculed the idea of veto power many times and thinks that only dictatorship will work instead of the concord. now with Max at the FIA he has the guarantee that they will not have much clout to force him to pay for rule changes that he thinks necessary for his business.

What is the profit for Bernie if Max is replaced by another Bernie puppet if Mosley is already a puppet? It can only be something that Max pursues by his own conviction and that Bernie thinks is very detrimental to his business. I do not see that particular issue.

Quite contrary Max secured the continuation of manufacturers pumping 1,5 bil $ anually into the business. He bent the teams arms to address the downforce/slicks issue to make the show better.

Really the only thing that would be nice to have would be the right to determine the race venues without FIA interference and the have change of control of FOM without FIA placet. would that be a motivation to set up Max?

I don't know. I think there are bigger fish to fry and motives to screw Max. how about getting even? or how about having the next FIA president sign the concord with veto rights for the teams again? that would be something someone might be prepared to put up some grands.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
Rob W
0
Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 03:28

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

"Sex scandal drives Porsche away"
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 18,00.html

What a joke and what poor reporting also. A team which hasn't, in modern history, had anything to do with F1, nor had shown any real interest in F1 comes out and says they will steer clear of it over this???? (unless, as is often, the newspaper just made the conclusion from a statement which didn't really paint it quite like that)

What a totally weird and misguided piece of PR. It served no purpose except to show what a lame bunch the people who represent Porche are that they felt a need to comment at all. :roll:

I'm over this totally. The FIA and Max can sort it out and be done with it..

(Also re: a much older post of mine... I still think there's a chance Bernie set him up..)

R

axle
axle
3
Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

Project Four wrote:First F1 driver to come out strongly against Mosley. Should have guessed that it would be most un-PC driver and the one who does speak his mind. Step Mr Mark Webber.

Mark Webber has accused Max Mosley of bringing the sport into disrepute following allegations about his private life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 355991.stm
I'd actually say DC speaks his mind more...but that's just splitting hairs!
- Axle

User avatar
checkered
0
Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

Ciro Pabón wrote:I won't deprive myself of writing more stuff like this, :) but I swear I will study rules for "Simple English Wikipedia". Next time I will erase everything except words in bold. No more thre sy-lla-bles words. No more phrases over six words.
Ciro, for Heaven's

sake, I wasn't criticising your content or your style! I was only reflecting on what, say, an editor in a yellow press publication might require of you. In fact, I find it extremely interesting and enriching that expressions from various languages can seep into one another in a sort of a "cross pollination of thought". I've always held that we need to guard the diversity of languages because therein we guard a whole spectrum of intellectual latitude that a single "lingua franca" simply cannot sustain. Mechanistic translations are just as prone to lose the nuance as the rationale behind expressions; but trodding the line between cultures is fruitful, for there we're invited beyond language - to thought and emotion itself. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes not. Play with languages, Ciro, play with them without fear or apprehension. As St. Augustine noted (in your link) it may not be the easiest of paths, but perhaps the more rewarding one.

On topic still, if Bernie is indeed behind this, should we not expect that it will also become very obvious before long? Reading the precedents you list this might be presumed to be the case. Given Ecclestone's position, it is terribly easy for him to whip up trouble - a careless word within earshot of Max's sworn adversaries can see a host of proverbial Macbethian servants of Hecate creak ajar the gates to a dungeon of public opinion. The walls of that popular establishment stand firm and tall with the bricks our countless minds, bound together by the mortar of media that without us is but an undescript heap of powder. Nonetheless, as in any good tragedy the protagonist designed his own downfall, assembled every bit of material, animosity and talent around himself to execute the plans and finally willingly stepped into the middle of that torment as if he wasn't the crux of his own entirety. What a curious caleidoscope of existentialism the center stage is, how great the allure to remain even when the sharp ends of the geometry whirling around you start to cut. Leave the vortex behind and it breaks apart by your movement, blown with the wind to settle into other symmetries. But oneself remains, and goes on.

If it wasn't Bernie, there's really no shortage of candidates, is there? Toying with subjects so basic, so emotive as human sexuality, is risky for Ecclestone as well and the man is quite widely recognised as being motivated by what remains under the bottom line only. It's possible, I guess, that he had no intention to satisfy his purpose quite so literally. Some of the exchanges during and leading to Formula One's bondage to various aspects of Mosley's person seem awfully quaint to me, the sorts of tit-for-tat retorts one might've expected to hear flung circa 1930s around some cobblestoned courtyards of educational institutions as swathed in intellectual patina alone as to appear impervious to the most caustic of comments: "You certified halfwit, you!" "Spoken like a truly deprived pervert!" You know, langue that, if directed at a person such as myself - being used to more universal phrases and symbols applied - induces inquisitiveness rather than indignance. This is something that I reflected on, after Justin Webb had noted in his BBC blog that the tough stuff (a video labelled "Younger than McCain", listing things such as Coke in a can and McDonald's) in US elections is starting.

Oh well, better take a breather before seeking the next insofar unwitting tangent to go on. Hey, almost forgot, Pitpass.com has a unique angle on Porsche's/VW's comments on Formula One in "Pots and black kettles". Depending on the perspectives of predilections there'd seem to be some common ground after all - not to mention common challenges. Time for a quick rethink?
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

Just to make sure that we have a record of the source I'll give you a link for the full telegraph interview here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... ley120.xml

what are new points or old points worth remembering?

1. NOTW or the people behind the investigation aparently bought or blackmailed only one of the women, probably Mistress Switch

2. Bernie is still praised by Max (not fully consistent with Ciro's theory)

3. It looks like nothing is done about voting at the FIA. This means 50,000,000 AAA menbers will have the same vote as the Zürich tent club of 400 memebers. Hey they can't make it that easy.

4. The trial is after the FIA vote. A real pitty.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

ben_watkins
ben_watkins
0
Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 23:49
Location: UK

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

Jean Todt has put himself right into the front running for taking over the FIA presidency...

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx ... 2&PO=42342

:evil:
BWP
Tripos Media Partners
#TriposMediaPartners

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

ben_watkins wrote:Jean Todt has put himself right into the front running for taking over the FIA presidency...
how do you arrive at that conclusion from the quote? there is nothing in it to indicate that Todt aspires to the presidency. of course one can speculate, but is supporting someone who is under fire a good tactic to replace him?

Todt is an outsider to the FIA representing the constructors in the WMSC. He hasn't got a vote in the extraordinary general assembly. unless he gets invited by Mosley he will not be there. he has no constituency in the FIA.

If there is a plan to get Todt into the office the scandal must have ruined the timing. it looks to me that it is too late for him to go lobbying.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

ben_watkins
ben_watkins
0
Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 23:49
Location: UK

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

I reached my conclusion due to the fact Todt is the only person, bar 1, to come out and say Mad Max is a fine FIA president and that being known across the world for having a "nazi style orgy" is fine.. [-X
BWP
Tripos Media Partners
#TriposMediaPartners

mcdenife
mcdenife
1
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 13:21
Location: Timbuck2

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

Whiteblue wrote:
what are new points or old points worth remembering?

1. NOTW or the people behind the investigation aparently bought or blackmailed only one of the women, probably Mistress Switch
.......
Not that it matters, but you state this as if its fact
rather than 'according to Max'. Plus why is it worth remembering? That it may or may not have been a trap is irrelevant.
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

mcdenife wrote:Whiteblue wrote:
what are new points or old points worth remembering?

1. NOTW or the people behind the investigation aparently bought or blackmailed only one of the women, probably Mistress Switch
.......
Not that it matters, but you state this as if its fact
rather than 'according to Max'. Plus why is it worth remembering? That it may or may not have been a trap is irrelevant.
I havn't stated it as fact. I have said aparently....

it may be irrelevant for you. it certainly isn't for the many people who want to know what happened. I confess that I am one of them. if interested parties (with a certain likelyhood from F1) have used criminal methods to discredit Mosley I would appreciate to see those people identified and punished.

I would like to see a clean uncorrupted process of electing the next president of the FIA and a respectable and capable person at the helm of the motorsport governing body. if the trappers are not exposed we don't know what other dirty little games they will play in the future.

and since we are at confessions I would like to add that the FIA needs a new voting system IMHO. it is unacceptable that 50 million people are represented by the same voting power as 400. as long as this practise continues the result of FIA elections lack legitimacy in my view.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 21 Apr 2008, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

I believe that you can make infinite theories. I choosed Bernie as an improbable one because it's the least controversial.

For a journalist the mere affair is reason enough. Sure Mosley wants them punished too, but I think a libel trial is not very interesting, to say the least.

FIA will take a decission. They need the time to take one that is not rushed. They won't take too much time so people don't feel they are procrastinating on the issue.

In a little more than a month we will know if Mosley continues to preside FIA, I'm sure it will be for the good of all.

I've heard many names, Todt among them. He wouldn't be a bad choice, but I don't know if it's his time. I doubt he himself knows if it reall is... ;) It's not an easy job, specially for anyone tied to team.

In case Mosley gets a no confidence vote, does anybody knows if the next president will have a full term?

And, how much time will the FIA take for the election to happen? Do the statutes say something?

I don't think that they are going to elect a guy the same day, probably they should nominate a Vicepresident of the Senate or someone like that meanwhile, in case of a no-confidence resolution.

BTW, even with the scandal, I think Mosley hasn't been such a bad president. He certainly rode through difficult times.
Ciro

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

http://www.fia.com/thefia/statutes/Files/index.html

if Mosley falls his replacement will be elected by the assembly if I remember right. I'm positive that the successor is only elected for the rest of the term.

we will probably know very soon because the agenda for the assembly must be sent soon. it will probably leak. it would be very surprising if the replacement vote wouldn't be on the agenda. probably they would use a constructive vote of no confidence. by this method you cannot just dismiss a president. you can only replace him with a more suitable candidate who must obviously be nominated and supported properly.

Edit for adding from §12 of the statues:
If, in the course of his term of office, the President of the FIA is permanently prevented from fulfilling his duties, or if he resigns, the Senate shall convene an Extraordinary General Assembly for the election of the President alone, to be held no less than 2 months and no more than 4 months from the date of such prevention or resignation.


This Extraordinary General Assembly shall elect, for the remainder of that term of office, the President of the FIA from among the candidates that the FIA member clubs will propose to fill that position. This residual term of office shall not count as a term of office for the purposes of the last sentence of Article 19.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 21 Apr 2008, 17:38, edited 1 time in total.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Project Four
Project Four
0
Joined: 24 Jan 2008, 23:28

Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

Post

ben_watkins wrote:Max will not attend the Spanish GP, instead he will attend the Jordan Rally. Shame really, as he'll miss out on the launch of the FIA "anti-racism" initiative ['racing against racism'] at the Spanish GP!!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66674

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/2/7355.html

After Mosley decided to go to the WRC Jordan, rather than the Spanish GP, where he feared any chance meeting with King Juan Carlos would create embarrassment, he is going to be publically ignored by King Abdullah of Jordan, whom will not receive him officially during his visit.

According to the UK newspaper ‘The Times’
“ senior officials in Jordan would prefer it if the visit did no go ahead, given the widespread revulsion at Mr Mosley’s conduct, which has shocked Formula 1 and the boardrooms of the big car manufacturers.

The officials are said to feel indebted to Mr Mosley because of the key role he played in ensuring that Jordan was given the choice to stage the rally and feel that they have no choice but to entertain him”