Pirelli will take Bridgestone's place after 2010

[WhiteBlue]

I didn't. I have quoted it from a reliable source. Pup is agitating against me.

Cry me a river. The article you quoted says nothing at all about the teams being divided. You're making it up. :^o

Adam Cooper reported already in May that Ferrari and McLaren support Michelin. I posted that quotation as well.

Besides the Speed article from 3rd June which I quoted mentions an article with far more detail in Auto Motor und Sport on 2nd June. Perhaps instead of making false accusations you could have done your own research or at least asked me to translate it for you.

Michelin gibt nicht auf
Die Michelin-freundlichen Teams Ferrari, Renault und McLaren luden am Sonntag einen Michelin-Vertreter nach Istanbul ein. Ihm wurden noch einmal die Wünsche der Teams übermittelt. Bernie Ecclestone war sauer. Er und mindestens neun der zwölf Teams favorisieren Pirelli.

Michelin not giving up
The Michelin friendly teams Ferrari, Renault and McLaren invited a Michelin representative to Istanbul for Sunday. Once again the wishes of the teams were conveyed to him. Bernie Ecclestone was miffed. He and at least nine of the twelve teams favour Pirelli.

So here you have it. The article in AMuS had plenty more information but I don't want to translate that much. I'm not making things up as much as you and expensive agitate against me. You both can apologize for your rude manners if you have any sense of decency.

[Pup]

We don't.

No matter, though, because all that article says is that the older teams thought they owed it to Michelin to hear them out. Doesn't sound like a rift to me. Doesn't sound like anyone is conspiring to drag the process out. Doesn't sound like anything you're saying.

[WhiteBlue]

I would have been surprised, honestly! [-X

[andrew]

Put the hand bags away ladies.

On the BBC pre-race coverage before the Canadian GP, Whitmarsh was interviewed and asked about the tyre supplier for next year. He seemed very keen on Michelin over Pirelli. However, I think Pirelli are the firm favorite due to Michelin not wanting to backdown on the 18" wheels.

[Pup]

Actually, I think they did. I read somewhere that one of the reasons the teams weren't in a rush anymore is that both Michelin and Pirelli had agreed to similar specification tires. That, plus the standard weight distribution proposal means that the teams can go ahead with next year's designs.

I'll try to find that article - I believe it was referenced by someone on the Atlas boards.

[WhiteBlue]

It is not the 18" wheels. Both Pirelli and Michelin want that and will probably get it with the new formula in 2013. The problem Michelin causes F1 is the tyre war they want. They are not prepared to give up that requirement. They are prepared to postpone it but it is still a fundamental item of disagreement. Nobody in F1 wants a tyre war. It is too expensive and teams are afraid to end up in the wrong camp unable to do anything about it and not winning simply due to tyres. Thirdly on a tyre war all the PR goes to the tyres and that is something the teams also loathe.

[xpensive]

I have a certain sympathy for Michelin in that respect, what's the point in having a win every second weekend if you don't beat anyone?

Actually, I applaud their competitive attitude, there should be a way to limit the spending anyway.

[Fil]

Spending already would be limited - If you can't test during the season, it is much more difficult to spend.

Better still, force the tyre range to be homologated by the first European round of the championship, with only 1 update granted after that.

[WhiteBlue]

I have a certain sympathy for Michelin in that respect, what's the point in having a win every second weekend if you don't beat anyone?

Actually, I applaud their competitive attitude, there should be a way to limit the spending anyway.

To a certain degree it woud be possible to address the cost situation but cost would necessarily go up. But cost are not the only complaints the teams have with a tyre war. It is much more important that F1 would take a direction in a tyre war that the teams vehemently oppose. Winning and loosing would be subject to being on the right tyre and not being a good or bad constructor. The own achievements as constructors would take a back seat to the performance gains or losses that a decision for or against a tyre supplier could bring. Necessarily many teams would end up on the wrong side as Ferrari did in 2005.

[Just_a_fan]

Perhaps the tyre war issue could be solved by letting the teams decide which tyres they want to use at each event. This puts the onus on the tyre manf. to make the best tyres they can and the teams don't have to be locked in for the whole season.

In effect it would be part of the tyre strategy for the weekend in place of currently choosing hard / soft you choose between Michelin / Pirelli. Each type compnay brings one spec of tyre for the event and the teams decide at the end of Friday which they'll use for Q and the race.

Some tracks will favour one tyre company, others will favour the other. Some tracks will be close initially but might move to one or the other during the race - much like the track develops now as rubber is laid down.

[WhiteBlue]

That would kick off a tremendous testing race! The only way I see this being done is having all teams for the same number (half the races) of races on both tyres and draw the slots in a lottery.

[ESPImperium]

Im gonna raise another issue, how are the new manufacturer gonna get data before the posibly Abu Dhabi test a week after the GP season is over. There is a saftey issue putting next to unproven tyres on 24 cars for a 5 day post season test with the race drivers that some teams also want to get good positive data with the 2010 cars for the 2011 season.

If rumor has it it is to be Nick Heidfeld in a Toyota TF109 or TF110 that is to be doing the provisional testing at a couple of tracks. The problem is to avoid conflict of interests. Testing in a Toyota is fine and good, unless a team thats wishing the 13th entry decides to buy the Toyota IP, and Nick Heidfeld is all fine and good, but hes is the Mercedes test driver...

Id say a driver like Kazuki Nakajimma or Jacques Villneuve would be the one to go for, with a car, or more likley cars from diffrent manufacturer that is older than this current season or last seasons techlology. Id say a Toyota TF108 would be a good one to start with, then maybes a Super Aguri SA08 (Honda RA107) would be also a good starting point.

One other way out would to allow each team to bring one car that is over 2 years old to a track and have a driver that isnt associated to their team test for one day, the 3 new teams could bring their current car to allow them a small advantage as they arguably wouldnt have anything to gain.

I dont know how you would get arround that one, barring getting a non-current F1 race or test driver to try the cars out in the FV10 car (Link: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41041) that wouldnt exactly give good constant and up to datte data for the new manufacturer to work with and to give to the teams for 2011.

[Pup]

That would kick off a tremendous testing race! The only way I see this being done is having all teams for the same number (half the races) of races on both tyres and draw the slots in a lottery.

...

[WhiteBlue]

That would kick off a tremendous testing race! The only way I see this being done is having all teams for the same number (half the races) of races on both tyres and draw the slots in a lottery.

Having all teams do 10 races with Michelin and 10 races with Pirelli is a fair way of letting them fight a tyre war and keeping a level playing field for the teams. This is by no means comparable with drawing straws for a championship. I wonder what kind of mind it takes to make such comparisons.

[myurr]

That would kick off a tremendous testing race! The only way I see this being done is having all teams for the same number (half the races) of races on both tyres and draw the slots in a lottery.

Having all teams do 10 races with Michelin and 10 races with Pirelli is a fair way of letting them fight a tyre war and keeping a level playing field for the teams. This is by no means comparable with drawing straws for a championship. I wonder what kind of mind it takes to make such comparisons.

It would only be a level playing field if you assume that the performance gap between the tyre brands would be constant throughout the year and from track to track. Neither is likely, leading to an advantage given to some drivers through sheer random luck.

The only way I can think of to keep things equal would be to mandate that both tyre brands must be used by each driver, in the way that both compounds must be used in the current rules. However this would probably lead to both tyre companies aiming for tyre durability rather than raw performance which would not be good for the show (in my opinion).