2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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f1316
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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giantfan10 wrote:Where did this information about Ferrari getting a better qualy mode come from?
I'm basing my assumption on a PU step in Austria on this interview with Marchionne (start from about 1:35):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fFGB6-z3l3g

He says that they went a long way to fixing engine issues in Canada and should have most of it off the table by Austria.

Now that by no means definitely translates to quali mode (they all already have something here- just some more than others), but I wouldn't be surprised if it helps in this regard.

I still say Mercedes are favourites for pole, just have a sneaking suspicion this is Ferrari's chance to grab one.

giantfan10
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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f1316 wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:Where did this information about Ferrari getting a better qualy mode come from?
I'm basing my assumption on a PU step in Austria on this interview with Marchionne (start from about 1:35):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fFGB6-z3l3g

He says that they went a long way to fixing engine issues in Canada and should have most of it off the table by Austria.

Now that by no means definitely translates to quali mode (they all already have something here- just some more than others), but I wouldn't be surprised if it helps in this regard.

I still say Mercedes are favourites for pole, just have a sneaking suspicion this is Ferrari's chance to grab one.
thanks

Ozan
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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giantfan10 wrote:
Ozan wrote:same as last year, Mercedes AMG will fight against Willams drivers for pole, but in race Merc will definately win (if they don't crash each other again) and vettel for 3rd place.
What qualy were you watching last year?
Vettel was 3rd .355 back from Hamilton
sorry, I think I mixed up it with 2014 qualy.

giantfan10
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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Ozan wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:
Ozan wrote:same as last year, Mercedes AMG will fight against Willams drivers for pole, but in race Merc will definately win (if they don't crash each other again) and vettel for 3rd place.
What qualy were you watching last year?
Vettel was 3rd .355 back from Hamilton
sorry, I think I mixed up it with 2014 qualy.
all good 8)

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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Someone is going to have a very heavy crash.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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f1316 wrote:
Juzh wrote:Will also be interesting to see whether ferrari has gone forwards or backwards. 0.4s difference last year in Q3.
Yeah, I think this is Ferrari's best chance of pole so far this year. It's similar to Canada but Ferrari were closer here last year and Marchionne alluded to the engine actually not being completely fixed until Austria - so there's more performance than Canada.

I think the gap in Baku had a lot to do with the length of the lap and Mercedes advantage with harvesting and deployment (remember that Spa was one of Ferrari's weakest points relative to Mercedes powered cars), so this won't be an issue at another short lap circuit.

I'm going to optimistically say Vettel for pole and win.
Austria is nothing at all like Canada. You need much more top end power in Austria then Canada which required acceleration out of slow corners and good braking. The only corner that is Canada like at Austria is maybe the turn 2 hairpin. All the other corners are flowing or open radius on exit and don't require significant braking performance. This will be a tough weekend for anybody without a Mercedes engine or the Ferrari factory team. If I was a betting man I wouldn't be putting any money on Red Bull unless it rains.

giantfan10
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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carisi2k wrote:
f1316 wrote:
Juzh wrote:Will also be interesting to see whether ferrari has gone forwards or backwards. 0.4s difference last year in Q3.
Yeah, I think this is Ferrari's best chance of pole so far this year. It's similar to Canada but Ferrari were closer here last year and Marchionne alluded to the engine actually not being completely fixed until Austria - so there's more performance than Canada.

I think the gap in Baku had a lot to do with the length of the lap and Mercedes advantage with harvesting and deployment (remember that Spa was one of Ferrari's weakest points relative to Mercedes powered cars), so this won't be an issue at another short lap circuit.

I'm going to optimistically say Vettel for pole and win.
Austria is nothing at all like Canada. You need much more top end power in Austria then Canada which required acceleration out of slow corners and good braking. The only corner that is Canada like at Austria is maybe the turn 2 hairpin. All the other corners are flowing or open radius on exit and don't require significant braking performance. This will be a tough weekend for anybody without a Mercedes engine or the Ferrari factory team. If I was a betting man I wouldn't be putting any money on Red Bull unless it rains.
Horner has already said this track isnt going to suit red bull... ya never know though

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Juzh
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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giantfan10 wrote:
carisi2k wrote:
f1316 wrote:
Yeah, I think this is Ferrari's best chance of pole so far this year. It's similar to Canada but Ferrari were closer here last year and Marchionne alluded to the engine actually not being completely fixed until Austria - so there's more performance than Canada.

I think the gap in Baku had a lot to do with the length of the lap and Mercedes advantage with harvesting and deployment (remember that Spa was one of Ferrari's weakest points relative to Mercedes powered cars), so this won't be an issue at another short lap circuit.

I'm going to optimistically say Vettel for pole and win.
Austria is nothing at all like Canada. You need much more top end power in Austria then Canada which required acceleration out of slow corners and good braking. The only corner that is Canada like at Austria is maybe the turn 2 hairpin. All the other corners are flowing or open radius on exit and don't require significant braking performance. This will be a tough weekend for anybody without a Mercedes engine or the Ferrari factory team. If I was a betting man I wouldn't be putting any money on Red Bull unless it rains.
Horner has already said this track isnt going to suit red bull... ya never know though
It certainly didn't in the last 2 years.

On pace ferrari will be clear 2nd.

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A-Bap
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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Manoah2u wrote:Someone is going to have a very heavy crash.
Whu-what? Kind of an awful and baseless comment, mate.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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In Spielberg it's almost a certainty, also we can't count out rain. This is a very special track. It requires a level of downforce similar to Australia. You gain more on the braking zones and turns than you do down the straights. The slowest turn is over 110 kph and and the vast majority of turns are 160 kph.

Some people disagree, and yes a low downforce setup can work but you're fighting high speed oversteer in that case.
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Raleigh
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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Austria might as well be the "anti- Red Bull" track, looooong straights combined with a sweeping high speed middle sector that will punish the usual Red Bull high speed circuit strategy of bolting on a skinny rear wing.

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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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godlameroso wrote:In Spielberg it's almost a certainty, also we can't count out rain. This is a very special track. It requires a level of downforce similar to Australia. You gain more on the braking zones and turns than you do down the straights. The slowest turn is over 110 kph and and the vast majority of turns are 160 kph.

Some people disagree, and yes a low downforce setup can work but you're fighting high speed oversteer in that case.
Braking isn't important at Austria at all because there is probably only 2 turns that are slow enough to make braking important and that is turns 2 and 3. Good aero for turns 4-7 is handy but most of the track is a drag strip and therefore top speed is extremely important.

So basically you need a good engine to power you down the straights and so you can carry the correct amount of downforce to allow acceleration out of turn 2 and corner speed for turns 4-7. Braking should be fine as there is really only turn 2 that puts stress on the brakes.

This track is made for anybody with a Mercedes engine as you can run slightly more downforce without having to worry about a lack of top speed. So unless it rains expect Red Bull to struggle although maybe not as much as 2015.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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This was more a Williams track with low drag, high topspeed en good traction out of the corners. Then in the race Mercedes crushes everyone on prime tyres.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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1-3 are all heavy breaking, 3 being the worst because it's downhill. At least 1 and 2 you have some uphill action helping breaking, however both turns require pinpoint breaking because getting a good exit out of 1 and 2 can let you carry a lot of speed on the straights, I'll take being faster over 3/4ths of the straight than getting that last little 1/4 from more power and lower downforce. From what I can tell, power is most important exiting 2 because it's by far the slowest turn in the circuit, so it's essentially a drag race. To me the best part of the circuit is from the exit of 3 to the end of the lap. Turn 4 is downhill and off camber, and sighting the breaking point as well as the apex is very difficult with the possibility of 2 or 3 different lines. 5-6 is mental because again it's hard to find the apex and if you mess up 5 it kills your lap time because 6 depends on your momentum on the exit of 5 plus it's uphill. The best is saved for last, the two right handers are off camber, downhill and very fast, the final turn is so satisfyingly tricky.
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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

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godlameroso wrote:1-3 are all heavy breaking, 3 being the worst because it's downhill. At least 1 and 2 you have some uphill action helping breaking, however both turns require pinpoint breaking because getting a good exit out of 1 and 2 can let you carry a lot of speed on the straights, I'll take being faster over 3/4ths of the straight than getting that last little 1/4 from more power and lower downforce. From what I can tell, power is most important exiting 2 because it's by far the slowest turn in the circuit, so it's essentially a drag race. To me the best part of the circuit is from the exit of 3 to the end of the lap. Turn 4 is downhill and off camber, and sighting the breaking point as well as the apex is very difficult with the possibility of 2 or 3 different lines. 5-6 is mental because again it's hard to find the apex and if you mess up 5 it kills your lap time because 6 depends on your momentum on the exit of 5 plus it's uphill. The best is saved for last, the two right handers are off camber, downhill and very fast, the final turn is so satisfyingly tricky.
Turn 1 is not heavy braking at all due to the uphill nature of the corner. Aero and gravity help there and 120km/h through the corner isn't that slow. Turn 2 with it's 75km/h hairpin turn and turn 3's downhill approach are the only real heavy braking corners to test the cars out in this area and that will not be enough to allow Red Bull, McLaren or Torro Rosso to be within cooee of the 3 merc power houses and Ferrari.

There is no significant braking between turn 4 and the end of the lap. Turns 4,5,6 and 7 are low braking high speed flow sections of the track. When you slow down in these sections you use the aero more then the brakes. The brakes are used to balance the car.