2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[KeiKo403]

I’m pretty sure I’ve read every comment on this topic (it’s the off season, please don’t judge ), not once do I remember seeing any comments saying that Max didn’t deserve the championship.

If the question is, Is it right the way the championship was decided? Then no, of course not. Please don’t twist that to be suggesting that Max isn’t a worthy or deserving Champion though.

[Wouter]

http://www.f1reader.com/#/news/exclusiv ... asi-301978


Go Masi...

Thank you for posting this article @mclaren! Always nice to read what Andretti has to say.

[CMSMJ1]

I’m pretty sure I’ve read every comment on this topic (it’s the off season, please don’t judge ), not once do I remember seeing any comments saying that Max didn’t deserve the championship.

If the question is, Is it right the way the championship was decided? Then no, of course not. Please don’t twist that to be suggesting that Max isn’t a worthy or deserving Champion though.

I think that is one post on this thread that makes all the sense

I can only imagine the amazing threads that would have come from the 1994/1995/1996 seasons with the various accidents, crashes and skullduggery.

Do we doubt the winners of those seasons? Not sure that it is really a thought for many - but MS and DH tangle in Adelaide was surely right up there!

[siskue2005]

Yes, we know, we know, you support Lewis. Max does everything wrong, Lewis does nothing wrong and when he does he shouldn't be penalized accordingly. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting RB, all outrage. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting MB, crickets. Especially if it was a decision that they've been talked into by Toto. But if they are talked into anything by Jonathan or Christian, the world ends.

Shall we just, leave it? This 'discussion' has gone through more circles than a typical f1 car over a whole season.

I think with the media talking about the new radio evidence that apparently shows Masi following orders from RedBull in the closing stages, it gives more detail to what happened and is exactly the kind of thing that should be discussed here. If you dont wish to participate in such discussions, then you can always just not look in this thread instead of asking for it to be shut down and we should just "leave it" ?

I have no problem with that discussion. i have a problem with those that keep screaming that the FIA is somehow a full-pro RB organization and that Max didn't deserve the championship over and over and over, and those failing to acknowledge MB's bouts of influencing the FIA etc.

May be you should read what i have posted previously, before making such assumptions

The only thing that Masi should have done differently in my view is either unlap all drivers or not unlap any driver.

And notify the teams what was going to happen. He could have had the same result but followed procedure.
I do not think it was intentional, but still a muff-up

Max deserved that with the season he had... but what happened is unfortunate that there will an asterisk on his championship forever!

This is my post few pages ago, (u can check there). But i am sure if the situation was oppsosite the redbull fans will say Lewis doesnt deserve the chmapionship! Like already people here have been saying.
They wont even support Lewis or give a supporting gesture towards the online abuse Lewis receives for years, but they will give support to Masi for similar abuse. So we are not the ones on shaky moral grounds.

[DChemTech]

This is my post few pages ago, (u can check there). But i am sure if the situation was oppsosite the redbull fans will say Lewis doesnt deserve the chmapionship! Like already people here have been saying.
They wont even support Lewis or give a supporting gesture towards the online abuse Lewis receives for years, but they will give support to Masi for similar abuse. So we are not the ones on shaky moral grounds.

I was referring to your earlier statement "No this season shows that Max can only win with the help of FIA/Masi", with which, taken over the course of the season, I strongly disagree. My apologies, I missed the other one.

[siskue2005]

This is my post few pages ago, (u can check there). But i am sure if the situation was oppsosite the redbull fans will say Lewis doesnt deserve the chmapionship! Like already people here have been saying.
They wont even support Lewis or give a supporting gesture towards the online abuse Lewis receives for years, but they will give support to Masi for similar abuse. So we are not the ones on shaky moral grounds.

I was referring to your earlier statement "No this season shows that Max can only win with the help of FIA/Masi", with which, taken over the course of the season, I strongly disagree. My apologies, I missed the other one.

I was replying to another post who said "Lewis only wins with faster car" hence i replied with the same retoric, nothing more.

[Airshifter]

We are well over 200 pages of posts here, same thing back and fore, so I have to ask, has anyone changed their mind either way?

For the record, I have. I initially thought Masi has to go, no matter what, now I think he has to be part of a team, and that teams have no direct communication with him during the race.
The rest of it- Ham v Ves or Merc v RBR should not really have had a baring on it.

The thread seems to have picked up the usual back and forth between the same posters. Everything is as they say, and cannot possibly be otherwise. Though I must admit I appreciate how some have upped their game and claim to know everything that influenced Masi, and exactly how.

I feel essentially the same as you. Put people in place, define some of the grey areas better, and be done with it. Making him the bad guy won't help anything, when in fact IMHO the problems are mostly sorted out better with more black and white direction where needed. Beyond that humans will be human, and humans under pressure will make more mistakes. The direct communication thing is a must, and has to be distracting as all crap when he's trying to do his job.

[Just_a_fan]

http://www.f1reader.com/#/news/exclusiv ... asi-301978


Go Masi...

Thank you for posting this article @mclaren! Always nice to read what Andretti has to say.

Yeah, and Andretti would have been wrong too.

[dans79]

Making him the bad guy won't help anything, when in fact IMHO the problems are mostly sorted out better with more black and white direction where needed. Beyond that humans will be human, and humans under pressure will make more mistakes. The direct communication thing is a must, and has to be distracting as all crap when he's trying to do his job.

As I have said before, even if you set aside the entire 2021 season, Masi has shown several times during his short tenure that he's not fit to hold the position!

for example Istanbul 2020 q2.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/14/fia ... nt-to-see/

Masi said race control had been told the recovery vehicle would be clear from the area by the time the drivers reached it.

“We released the cars from pit lane as the recovery vehicle was moving to the escape road, following information given to race control by the clerk of the course that the vehicle would be clear of the track before the cars on their out-laps reached turn eight where the recovery was taking place,” Masi explained.

“As soon as it became apparent that the recovery vehicle had been delayed in moving completely into the barrier opening, we extended the area of double-waved yellow flags from turn eight to the entry point of turn seven to further slow down the cars on their out-laps.

His excuse is garbage, the cars shouldn't have been released until it was confirmed the crane, the marshals, and the cars where all safely behind the barrier.

The story isn't any better from the previous race in imola.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/10/an- ... -concerns/

The six drivers had been waved past the Safety Car in order to re-join the lead lap. They passed the marshals on the approach to Acque Minerale, where the track was still being cleaned following George Russell’s crash earlier.
The last of the six, Lance Stroll, passed close by the marshals at speed. Sebastian Vettel, who was ahead of Stroll at the time, warned the presence of marshals on the track was “very dangerous”.

The incident followed another near-miss in Monaco last year, where Sergio Perez encountered two marshals on the track in Monaco during a Safety Car period.

Imo, what this shows is Masi cares more about the "show", than performing his actual job, ensuring safety for everyone involved, and that the rules are applied equally and appropriately at all times. The two examples above are more than enough to justify his canning as far as I am concerned!

[SmallSoldier]

Two problems that I see. First one, I always said, stewarding in general has been highly inconsistent and that has been a bigger pain than what happened in Abu Dhabi specifically. Second one, those making noises on behalf Hamilton for his loss, conveniently ignore everything else that happened (including point in above post), including teams' sloppiness across the year that contributed to him being in such a situation.

If you put Abu Dhabi with everything that happened, as the 4th race of the year and Silverstone or Hungary as the last race, emotions would be very different.

All seasons have to-and-fro for various drivers so it's to be expected that some things done by the driver or his team will be sub-optimal or even plain wrong. That's a given. No team or driver has ever had a perfect season.

The issue with Abu Dhabi is that we had a situation where two drivers were in contention for the title but actions of the race director effectively decided the outcome directly in favour of one of those two drivers. That's the problem. It's like the ref in a football match heading in the ball for one side giving them the win.

And you mention Silverstone and Hungary. In Silverstone both drivers were involved and both drivers had a hand in the incident - just as they did in Monza. Indeed, Monza was down to a bad, very slow, pit stop for Max - had the team performed properly, he wouldn't have been near Hamilton in to the chicane. That's the to-and-fro again.

As for Hungary, that was straight up bad luck for Max. Just as Baku was for Hamilton - he didn't deliberately do anything to scupper his own chances - it was an accidental control input which the team then changed the design of to prevent happening again.

The issue with Abu Dhabi is that the race was decided by the official doing something that was not in the written rules as understood by all of the teams. The outcome can't be changed now, and it shouldn't be as Max is as worthy a champion as Lewis would have been. But what can be done is preventing the same off-script decisions determining races or championships again.

This!

[PlatinumZealot]

It's ironic that Christian Horner speaks of "reaffirming" the number 1 on the 2022 car. To me it's like he knows that most persons see the championship as ill-gotten (even if it's no fault of the driver) and even for him doubt is starting to set in whether his rivals see them as champions. It's a real limp to walk on when you are champion and not as regarded as you would like to be.

[Wouter]

It's ironic that Christian Horner speaks of "reaffirming" the number 1 on the 2022 car. To me it's like he knows that
most persons see the championship as ill-gotten (even if it's no fault of the driver) and even for him doubt is starting to set in whether his rivals see them as champions.
It's a real limp to walk on when you are champion and not as regarded as you would like to be.

.
Here we go again. Same song here, over and over and over again.
Do you have any idea how many people, including non-Max fans, think he is the deserved World Champion looking at all the races throughout the year ?
If I'm not mistaken, even Toto texted he deserved it to Max. That was reported on Sky Sport.
I'll give you the link right away, because it's always asked for here.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/31381 ... s-hamilton

"Toto sent me a text [saying] congratulations on the season, I deserved to win it," said Verstappen. "That was nice of him of course, emotions ran very high through that last lap from both sides of both teams."
Verstappen told Sky Sports News' Craig Slater on the same media call.

[Jolle]

It's ironic that Christian Horner speaks of "reaffirming" the number 1 on the 2022 car. To me it's like he knows that
most persons see the championship as ill-gotten (even if it's no fault of the driver) and even for him doubt is starting to set in whether his rivals see them as champions.
It's a real limp to walk on when you are champion and not as regarded as you would like to be.

.
Here we go again. Same song here, over and over and over again.
Do you have any idea how many people, including non-Max fans, think he is the deserved World Champion looking at all the races throughout the year ?
If I'm not mistaken, even Toto texted he deserved it to Max. That was reported on Sky Sport.
I'll give you the link right away, because it's always asked for here.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/31381 ... s-hamilton

"Toto sent me a text [saying] congratulations on the season, I deserved to win it," said Verstappen. "That was nice of him of course, emotions ran very high through that last lap from both sides of both teams."
Verstappen told Sky Sports News' Craig Slater on the same media call.

He deserves the championship, but it's ill-gotten.

[AeroDynamic]

Theres no need to conflate 'deserving' with correct. Max and Lewis, either were deserving champions, that's not the problem. The problem is, the sport mishandled a title deciding race. Wrong decisions means wrong driver wins a championship deciding race.. thus, wrong champion.

Winning fair and square means within the rules of the game. Mercedes and Hamilton had won it fair and would've won it fair if the rules they anticipated being followed, were followed properly.

[PlatinumZealot]

It's ironic that Christian Horner speaks of "reaffirming" the number 1 on the 2022 car. To me it's like he knows that
most persons see the championship as ill-gotten (even if it's no fault of the driver) and even for him doubt is starting to set in whether his rivals see them as champions.
It's a real limp to walk on when you are champion and not as regarded as you would like to be.

.
Here we go again. Same song here, over and over and over again.
Do you have any idea how many people, including non-Max fans, think he is the deserved World Champion looking at all the races throughout the year ?
If I'm not mistaken, even Toto texted he deserved it to Max. That was reported on Sky Sport.
I'll give you the link right away, because it's always asked for here.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/31381 ... s-hamilton

"Toto sent me a text [saying] congratulations on the season, I deserved to win it," said Verstappen. "That was nice of him of course, emotions ran very high through that last lap from both sides of both teams."
Verstappen told Sky Sports News' Craig Slater on the same media call.

Max is "a" deserving world champion obviously. That is not even the argument.

The argument is that the championship was decided by manipulation of the rules by the leading official. Basically one guy was 6-0 in the match then the official called a penalty shoot-out and the second guy has to take his penalty from the half-way line while the first guy gets an open goal.

The other races in the year had no bearing on this. After those 21 races we all tuned in, both drivers on equal points to watch them duke it out on EQUAL terms - no steward BS- to decide who is will be the REAL champion.

Imagine... One driver fighting off a tag team, clearing the pack, swashbuckling through the race, to the point of clearing dozens of lapped cars to earn his 10 second lead of his rival. Oh, the sacrifice and mastery it took to manage that! It was a almost masterpeice -the type of driver display that fans want to see.

Then what happens next after the late safety car?! You would have imagined in the spirit of fairness, the least Masi could do was at least leave those lapped cars in place to give the guy on brand new softs some work to do before he attacks the other guy who did all the work, now on dead tyres four seconds a lap slower...?

Of course the public is going to feel decieved. They feel the wrong person won the race based on the skill that was shown in that race. It's a huge stink. Bad publucity for RedBull. I don't even think Max is really satisfied with it as a sportsman. It's just one of those things. And for sure he want to beat Lewis fair and sqaure. He wants to dominate him. And Horner and Marko want this for Max too.