Pirelli 2013

[FW17]

Time to get rid of using both prime and option during the race. Teams can decide if they want to use both or just one and even allow mixing of the tyres eg. front hard, rear soft. Really don't see a using both tyres mandatory as there is a overdose of overtaking (mostly undeserved), yet FIA is so lacking in its action. Jean Todt seems to wait for every problem to sort itself out (by others), wish we had Ari (who seemed a lot more serious about the job)

Pirelli wants to be the talk of every commentator, driver, team during the weekend hence the current tyre situation (which is fair to a degree). They forget that others have also paid a lot of money to be part of t.he show.

[lebesset]

So now Pirelli is going to change the hard to a compound resembling last year's tire, let's see if we can get some proper racing done now instead of trying to drive over eggshells.

this is not correct
in brazil last year pirelli gave the teams proposed tyres for 2013 , in each case softer than 2012 because the teams had adapted too well in 2012 and the tyres were by then too conservative to meet the parameters agreed

these tyres became the 2013 tyres except for the hard , which pirelli subjected to a second softening in the spec as , after the brazil tests , they thought them still too hard and durable

however , events in the early part of 2013 have convinced pirelli that this was a step too far , and they have reverted to the 2013 hard as tested by the teams in brazil , but not to the 2012 spec ; at the same time they have lowered the operating temperature window to reflect european ambient temperatures

so , in fact , we now have exactly the same tyres as pirelli proposed at the end of the 2012 season

[Jonnycraig]

Hmm? What makes you think that? I was referring to forum members who are incapable of seeing that there is a pattern to when each car performs well, both in 2012, and in 2013 (though the patterns for 2013 are only just becoming clear). RedBull and Merc have plenty of people who understand the tyres – they just understand them less well than Lotus at the moment.

Red Bull's pattern has changed completely. In 2012, they were untouchable on the soft & supersoft and much closer to Ferrari on the medium & hard. In 2013, so far they are comparatively nowhere over a stint on the soft & supersoft, but strong on the medium & hard.

The reason for this change of fortunes could of course be as you speculate that they dont understand the tyres. Alternately it could be as reported by reputable media that they and Mercedes infact do understand the tyres but believe there is an inherent flaw in the construction of the 2013 tyres.

If they understood them, they would be driving as fast on them as Lotus.

I'm 99% sure that you are trolling, but there's that niggling fear that you seriously believe that.

So now Pirelli is going to change the hard to a compound resembling last year's tire, let's see if we can get some proper racing done now instead of trying to drive over eggshells.

this is not correct
in brazil last year pirelli gave the teams proposed tyres for 2013

That in itself is not correct. They got to test a sole prototype 'hard' tyre that was then further softened.

[Richard]

This should be quite easily demonstrated with numbers.

Of course tyre type and winning may be circumstantial and not causation. For example it may be that certain Pirelli tyres are chosen for high speed circuits and RB do well at those circuits whatever the tyre choice.

[Cam]

Sooo, the latest.

Pirelli has finally confirmed that it will supply a new 'prototype' hard tyre to teams from this weekend in Barcelona.......It is a "specially-created compound with the emphasis on durability so that the teams run for as long as possible", Pirelli announced in a media statement.

No team would run them - would they? You can't use them in the race, so race simulations are pointless. Any new aero testing would need to also run on the race tyres as well due to the new deflections in the 2013 tyre. What am I missing here? It seems like Pirelli have again supplied an answer for a question no-one asked.

[Huntresa]

Sooo, the latest.

Pirelli has finally confirmed that it will supply a new 'prototype' hard tyre to teams from this weekend in Barcelona.......It is a "specially-created compound with the emphasis on durability so that the teams run for as long as possible", Pirelli announced in a media statement.

No team would run them - would they? You can't use them in the race, so race simulations are pointless. Any new aero testing would need to also run on the race tyres as well due to the new deflections in the 2013 tyre. What am I missing here? It seems like Pirelli have again supplied an answer for a question no-one asked.

You do realize that Pirelli have brought prototypes before to races over the years? Its the only way they can test outside of using their old F1 car.

[Cam]

Sooo, the latest.

Pirelli has finally confirmed that it will supply a new 'prototype' hard tyre to teams from this weekend in Barcelona.......It is a "specially-created compound with the emphasis on durability so that the teams run for as long as possible", Pirelli announced in a media statement.

No team would run them - would they? You can't use them in the race, so race simulations are pointless. Any new aero testing would need to also run on the race tyres as well due to the new deflections in the 2013 tyre. What am I missing here? It seems like Pirelli have again supplied an answer for a question no-one asked.

You do realize that Pirelli have brought prototypes before to races over the years? Its the only way they can test outside of using their old F1 car.

Umm, I think you missed the point. This isn't a Brazil 2012 scenario whereby teams get to trial new rubber for next year. This is to increase track time during practice. It's for the show. This is what I was questioning.

[Huntresa]

Umm, I think you missed the point. This isn't a Brazil 2012 scenario whereby teams get to trial new rubber for next year. This is to increase track time during practice. It's for the show. This is what I was questioning.

And i didnt mean Brazil 2012, cause that wasnt the first time they got try prototype tyres.

But i agree with you on that it will prob not benefit any team in any particular way, especially if the teams doesnt know if its next years tyre or this years evolution or w/e and so they prob wont run it unless they see a benefit.

Cause i mean they wouldnt use the word prototype if its just a Hard tyre that will last forever, i just think its a evolution of the Hard tyre etither to be used this year or next year.

Btw i cant see anywhere in any press release that its suppose to last amazingly longer then the current Hard tyre.

[turbof1]

Perhaps its more a way of circumventing the rules. The prototype could just as well be a tyre with negligible differences towards the current ones. In that case it is an useful tyre.

[Huntresa]

Perhaps its more a way of circumventing the rules. The prototype could just as well be a tyre with negligible differences towards the current ones. In that case it is an useful tyre.

Yeah he even mentions that as a, "under the current rules we can provide a prototype"

[Richard]

I see Pirelli are giving teams an extra set of tyres for Barcelona.

They're trialling a preliminary new compound so not relevant to this race but it does allow teams to spend more time on track, and allow Pirelli to get useful feedback.

http://www.f1technical.net/news/18361

[Cam]

We'll obviously see in Spain if it works - but would the top teams actually use them and spend more time on track just for the sake of it? With already very little testing time, practice is usually spent constructively for team centric results - trialling new parts, comparing setups, simulations etc. To waste time (I use that word loosely) to help Pirelli - when Pirelli already have a test F1 car and get already all the data from all the teams, shouldn't they really be able to manufacture a proper tyre, without running mid-season prototypes - seems a little odd.

That begs a question, how much realistic time is required on track to give valid feedback? Also, would the teams have to run an old setup to compare the tyre against - or simply run a Spain setup and run both tyres? If it's the latter, is 10 laps enough to compare?

[Huntresa]

We'll obviously see in Spain if it works - but would the top teams actually use them and spend more time on track just for the sake of it? With already very little testing time, practice is usually spent constructively for team centric results - trialling new parts, comparing setups, simulations etc. To waste time (I use that word loosely) to help Pirelli - when Pirelli already have a test F1 car and get already all the data from all the teams, shouldn't they really be able to manufacture a proper tyre, without running mid-season prototypes - seems a little odd.

That begs a question, how much realistic time is required on track to give valid feedback? Also, would the teams have to run an old setup to compare the tyre against - or simply run a Spain setup and run both tyres? If it's the latter, is 10 laps enough to compare?

Well it never hurts to get some running on it, especially if the teams themself know what the tyre is for, as in is it for next year or is it an evoltuion for this year etc

Also i gotta add, it doesnt rly seem odd to do prototype runs mid season since Pirelli only have an old F1 car to test with and GP2 cars and with this have to manufacture a tyre that will work atleast 85-90% OKish on 11 different cars.

[Cam]

...to manufacture a tyre that will work atleast 85-90% OKish on 11 different cars.

Yep, that's where we're at. Never would I have thought supplying a component that was 85-90% OKish to F1 (or any major organisation), would be acceptable. I stand corrected. And appalled.

[F1andDone]

Does anyone think that Pirelli is embarrassed at this point? The tire maker gets into Motorsport to advertise and Formula 1 is the biggest stage. If I were a Pirelli executive I'd be pissed off at the 2013 tire gimmick that F1 is playing. Bahrain was OK but the prior races were all about tire management. I want to see these guys race and not watch a tire chess match.