Belgian GP 2010 - Spa Francorchamps

[forty-two]

You can't blame Vettel for this crash.

Erm, yes I can.
Yet another rookie mistake IMO

[myurr]

Only a dunderheaded fool would blame Vettel for Luizzi loosing his wing. Even the anti-German BBC pundits defended Vettel on this!

They actually gave it as 50/50 and mentioned Vettels propensity for hitting other cars. I pretty much agree on this one, Vettel should have been more careful in the overtake and Liuzzi should have given him more room.

[Giblet]

He cuts in front of so many cars that he is not actually past, I just assume it's his fault now.

But wow... only %50 his fault, quite an improvement.

[mep]

Only a dunderheaded fool would blame Vettel for Luizzi loosing his wing. Even the anti-German BBC pundits defended Vettel on this!

They actually gave it as 50/50 and mentioned Vettels propensity for hitting other cars. I pretty much agree on this one, Vettel should have been more careful in the overtake and Liuzzi should have given him more room.

Do you want to see overtaking or not?

[ringo]

look at Massa !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kChqJVjp9U

I've said this before, but i am of the opinion Massa is visually impaired after the accident. He could be hiding it. I've seen too many spins and offs from him this year, he's not half the driver he used to be.

[bcoxa]

He's not visually impaired, I'm sure there was someone else this season that has over stepped his box with no penalty... Now who was it...?

[ringo]

Vettel is trying the Hamilton hangout move. Only thing is, he doesn't know when and how to do it. He is not on the racing line, in fact he actually is compromising the corner entry for the next turn.
Luizi was trying to stay on track and not cut the chicane. It's a racing incident, but Vettel could have made a cleaner run through that turn.

[ringo]

He's not visually impaired, I'm sure there was someone else this season that has over stepped his box with no penalty... Now who was it...?

Heh heh, , i can't remember who it was.
But i think Massa has some lingering injuries from his accident. Maybe his left eye vission is blurry, who knows?
All i know is that his driving is not as good as last years or 2008.

[WhiteBlue]

He cuts in front of so many cars that he is not actually past, I just assume it's his fault now.
But wow... only %50 his fault, quite an improvement.

Your post is completely ignoring reality. Vettel had the INSIDE LINE and was 98% AHEAD. How the hell could he cut across Liuzzi? Vettel is entitled to pick the racing line that suits him best and he went wide, but not so wide that Liuzzi had no space on track as I have shown.

Vettel is trying the Hamilton hangout move. Only thing is, he doesn't know when and how to do it. He is not on the racing line, in fact he actually is compromising the corner entry for the next turn.

When you get passed in a late braking maneuver on the inside you have to expect the other guy to run wider than ideal because his corner entry is compromised. If Vettel had had an ideal corner entry he would have come from the middle of the track where Liuzzi had his corner entry. Liuzzi simply made a mistake over estimating Vettel's turn in rate and turned in too sharp too early. It was probably only an issue of just 25 cm (10") and he hit Vettel's outside rear wheel. 100% Liuzzi's fault for running into the car ahead. He let Vettel pass and had to stay clear of him which he did not do.

This was an accident that Liuzzi could have easily avoided by taking more care and staying clear. It cost Vettel eight or ten points. Without that accident he could have easily made it to P5. He had almost half the race (18 laps) to make 5 positions and he could have profited from the safety car caused by Alonso's shunt. Liuzzi's mistake may have a significant impact on this years WDC.

[ringo]

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but you can't keep coming to Vettel's defense every time. A day is going to come where he'll be out right wrong.
He's an adult now, he's not baby shumi anymore. He needs to be responsible for himself.
The fact that we are debating his actions indicates he's not driving well enough.

He has great potential, but it's almost embarrassing seeing him throw away a championship like this. Webber is making the best use of the opportunity. He's more reliable and sure footed on the track. Might as well Webber be promoted to #1 driver; never send a boy to do a man's job . I wouldn't trust Vettel to bring home the bacon for redbull. He's too impetuous.
Maybe it's the pressure, because he didn't look this bad last year. He has been corrupted by the power of the Rb6. He thinks the championship will be decided after each race,and every point Webber gains on him will put him further away.
It's this thinking that is making do these erratic maneuvers on track, both the the championship challengers and his teammate.

[WhiteBlue]

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but you can't keep coming to Vettel's defense every time. A day is going to come where he'll be out right wrong.

I sure can and I will!

I did not defend his mistake that caused the accident with Button. He lost control of his car. He lost a lot of positions in that accident as well. I just made the point that the penalty wasn't appropriate. The tank slapper he got into wasn't recoverable. So once he started his passing move on the outside the accident wasn't avoidable which was conveniently ignored by the stewards. Do we want to see passes or not?

I'm not surprised by the massive and unfair criticism (crash kid). Where was Whitmarsh when Webber took out Hamilton in Australia or Kovalainen in Valencia. If you just take all the McLaren and Ferrari fans and add the guys who want to see Webber win the WDC you kind of expect that most fans will be against Vettel. Hence the psycho war on Seb comes totally expected. Just do not expect me to keep quiet about the noises they all make to promote their own men.

[volarchico]

Sorry to break up the Vettel bashing/defending, but I was wondering if anyone had captures of the vortices being shed behind the rear wings during the race from the side. During the race I saw a few instances where you could see 1 or 2 meters of the vortices visible behind the cars from a side view. I asked earlier in this thread, but no response. If there's a good place I can do the searching for these pictures myself, point me to it and I'll do the work to look through them, but I'm not sure where to go for good screen captures like WhiteBlue and others have been posting. Thanks!

[WhiteBlue]

My copy this time is actually not of the usual quality. Sky choose to use their HD channel for the Bundesliga football matches instead of the F1 race. I will have a look if I can find something for you.

[DaveKillens]

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but you can't keep coming to Vettel's defense every time. A day is going to come where he'll be out right wrong.

I sure can and I will!

I did not defend his mistake that caused the accident with Button. He lost control of his car. He lost a lot of positions in that accident as well. I just made the point that the penalty wasn't appropriate. The tank slapper he got into wasn't recoverable. So once he started his passing move on the outside the accident wasn't avoidable which was conveniently ignored by the stewards. Do we want to see passes or not?

I'm not surprised by the massive and unfair criticism (crash kid). Where was Whitmarsh when Webber took out Hamilton in Australia or Kovalainen in Valencia. If you just take all the McLaren and Ferrari fans and add the guys who want to see Webber win the WDC you kind of expect that most fans will be against Vettel. Hence the psycho war on Seb comes totally expected. Just do not expect me to keep quiet about the noises they all make to promote their own men.

Hear, hear, I wholeheartedly agree. Although I do believe Webber will win the WDC this year, I also believe the fanboy attacks on Vettel are disproportionate to the reality. He's good, and deserves to be in Formula One. If he was a backmarker and his collisions happened mid-pack, there wouldn't be much of a discussion. But since he's a front-runner and any incidents probably affect his rivals, the harsh glare of scrutiny draws the fanboys like flies to .. well, they speak out. Loud, very loud. And stridently.

[ESPImperium]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzFgGcfg ... r_embedded[/youtube]

For Vettel to learn how to overtake!!!