2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

[chrisc90]

That Latifi guy is being made to look so bad. A new guy jumping into the car without any practice is wiping floor with him. He can't be in F1.

He's a pay driver who brough the Sofina sponsorship. Your issue is more with Williams than Latifi.

Would be intersting for Williams. They know Albon is a pretty dab hand with the car aswell, and can get it into the midfield of the grid. De vries has shown he can do the same. I guess it would depend if Latifi's sponsor would continue to invest if they know theres 2 drivers there that can get the car in the solid midfield.

There is also the larger picture to look at, which im sure Mercedes driver programme has a say in. Do they put de vries in who could well be a successor to Hamilton in a few years after hes had some experience at Williams in F1, or someone new and Mercedes not have anyone who's been in F1 to replace Hamilton when he retires.

[vorticism]

That Latifi guy is being made to look so bad. A new guy jumping into the car without any practice is wiping floor with him. He can't be in F1.

He's a pay driver who brough the Sofina sponsorship. Your issue is more with Williams than Latifi.

I guess it would depend if Latifi's sponsor would continue to invest if they know theres 2 drivers there that can get the car in the solid midfield.

I doubt it. Latifi's dad is the CEO of Sofina.

[chrisc90]

He's a pay driver who brough the Sofina sponsorship. Your issue is more with Williams than Latifi.

I guess it would depend if Latifi's sponsor would continue to invest if they know theres 2 drivers there that can get the car in the solid midfield.

I doubt it. Latifi's dad is the CEO of Sofina.

Ah, thats not going to work then. Im sure Williams could attract some better sponsors if they could show the car/driver is capable of getting into good positions each race.

[Quantum]

Ah yes must be why Russell dropped straight out of Max's DRS and fell way behind in the first stint.. oh wait

Yes - the Merc isn't as fast as the Red Bull. You've just proved my point, well done.

Well you must've missed the heavy sarcasm. Reality is that Russell hang in Max's DRS for a fair few laps after he was overtaken. His pace on softs was also less than half a second off the rb18 for the first stint once he fell out of the DRS - nowhere near the 1-2s gaps to midfield cars. Please watch live timing if you want to talk about relative pace of cars

Anyway I have no interest in arguing with someone who always pedals out the same bad faith points. Agree to disagree, as I already said

Are you really suggesting the W13 to be competitive in relation to the Red Bull?

[AMG.Tzan]

It’s the first time I’ve been embarrassed to talk about my beloved sport! I always thought there’s no way this sport can get manipulated like football! But now this is too much…

Since Abu Dhabi the FIA has been trying desperately to have Verstapen win every single race! Can’t believe what I just saw…3 laps with a clean race track yet they didn’t even let lapped cars pass! At Abu Dhabi though they fast tracked their proceedings just to give Verstapen an easy chance to win a race he didn’t deserve with the race pace he had that day!

Anyway, even if we had a restart Leclerc wouldn’t have been able to pass Verstapen but still…why rob fans from such an exciting finish specially when it’s Ferrari’s home GP we’re racing at!

Id be embarassed to post that.
Nobody in race control cares who's home race it is.
Neither do they manipulate the race to let Max win.

Wonder what you would have said if it was Charles in P1....

“ Neither do they manipulate the race to let Max win.” I’d be embarrassed to write such thing if I was a Verstapen fan!

Guess you’ve got a short memory or you’re just pretending Abu Dhabi 2021 never happened! It’s funny how even the FIA and even the race directors still point to Abu Dhabi as a race where rules weren’t followed!

What’s my point though? Entertainment! The reason Masi and FIA did all their shenanigans in Abu Dhabi was entertainment at the expense of one driver! I guess there wasn’t enough entertainment to be had today with a fight between Max and Charles for 2-3 laps…

Even Horner himself acknowledged that there was enough time to restart the race…

[chrisc90]

It’s the first time I’ve been embarrassed to talk about my beloved sport! I always thought there’s no way this sport can get manipulated like football! But now this is too much…

Since Abu Dhabi the FIA has been trying desperately to have Verstapen win every single race! Can’t believe what I just saw…3 laps with a clean race track yet they didn’t even let lapped cars pass! At Abu Dhabi though they fast tracked their proceedings just to give Verstapen an easy chance to win a race he didn’t deserve with the race pace he had that day!

Anyway, even if we had a restart Leclerc wouldn’t have been able to pass Verstapen but still…why rob fans from such an exciting finish specially when it’s Ferrari’s home GP we’re racing at!

Id be embarassed to post that.
Nobody in race control cares who's home race it is.
Neither do they manipulate the race to let Max win.

Wonder what you would have said if it was Charles in P1....

“ Neither do they manipulate the race to let Max win.” I’d be embarrassed to write such thing if I was a Verstapen fan!

Guess you’ve got a short memory or you’re just pretending Abu Dhabi 2021 never happened! It’s funny how even the FIA and even the race directors still point to Abu Dhabi as a race where rules weren’t followed!

What’s my point though? Entertainment! The reason Masi and FIA did all their shenanigans in Abu Dhabi was entertainment at the expense of one driver! I guess there wasn’t enough entertainment to be had today with a fight between Max and Charles for 2-3 laps…

Even Horner himself acknowledged that there was enough time to restart the race…

As I said in the SC thread that popped up...

Im not sure what fans/teams really expect....

Fans and the teams want to finish the race under a green flag....fair enough, but then it seems the FIA cant win. They stick a SC out to protect the marshalls and drivers from lifting machinery, and then get twisted at when it takes longer to unlap cars and sort the order out,
What is key, is the safety of drivers and personnel on track recovering a car, rather than cars finishing under a green flag or cars unlapping themselves flying past a Manitou recovering a car.

People twisted at the FIA for finishing AD with a green flag lap, then comes to the EXACT same scenario, and you have the fans and teams shouting at the FIA to finish under a green flag racing lap.

Maybe we should have done a Masi and let a selection of lapped cars past then immediately call the SC into the pits in order to get a racing lap done....But guess what....fans would have complained.

There is a easy way to sort this, and the BTCC already do it....Just add the laps on at the end increasing the total race distance by up to 5 laps. That way, your almost guaranteed to finish under racing conditions.

[AMG.Tzan]

It's all the same. Engines are easier to copy. Less restrictions, and easier to test an engine.
Aero is more difficult, as it's harder to test and benchmark.

I noticed today that the Aston Martin was slow, despite having redbull style pods. It goes to show that much of the aero is in the floor, and not necessarily the sidepods.

How do you easily copy something that's not visible? Mercedes chief designer John Owen in one of his interviews (I guess in 2020) a while back said, they were happy that everybody spoke about their engine and not the aero. He was surprised nobody was copying their aero and everyone was looking at Red Bull to copy. He was happy with that situation because engine was hiding and was not easy to copy whereas aero was visible to naked eye and easily copyable.

probably because the power of the Merc engine made up for the poor aero they had compared to other teams.

Having the most powerful engine isn’t enough to win 8 straight titles! Just look at Ferrari 2018-2019

That’s a nice narrative for Red Bull and Max fans who cannot accept their golden man Newey got it wrong with the 2014-2021 cars…he didn’t even get the 2021 constructors championship were he truly had both the best chassis (backed of course by rule changes to only disadvantage low rake cars) and the most powerful and reliable engine!

[Just_a_fan]

I agree totally and Sainz had a good race with overtakes, Hamilton did basically nothing just driving and grabbed the position because of his faster car but added nothing to it.

Did nothing? It's fine disliking a guy but you make yourself look a bit silly saying stuff like that.

A restart would have costed the position for Lewis with Checo behind him with fresher softs.

Yes, except this particular discussion is nothing to do with the restart.

[Just_a_fan]

It's all the same. Engines are easier to copy. Less restrictions, and easier to test an engine.
Aero is more difficult, as it's harder to test and benchmark.

I noticed today that the Aston Martin was slow, despite having redbull style pods. It goes to show that much of the aero is in the floor, and not necessarily the sidepods.

How do you easily copy something that's not visible? Mercedes chief designer John Owen in one of his interviews (I guess in 2020) a while back said, they were happy that everybody spoke about their engine and not the aero. He was surprised nobody was copying their aero and everyone was looking at Red Bull to copy. He was happy with that situation because engine was hiding and was not easy to copy whereas aero was visible to naked eye and easily copyable.

probably because the power of the Merc engine made up for the poor aero they had compared to other teams.

Except when Ferrari wasn't cheating and yet the Merc was still up there with them.

[ringo]

It's all the same. Engines are easier to copy. Less restrictions, and easier to test an engine.
Aero is more difficult, as it's harder to test and benchmark.

I noticed today that the Aston Martin was slow, despite having redbull style pods. It goes to show that much of the aero is in the floor, and not necessarily the sidepods.

How do you easily copy something that's not visible? Mercedes chief designer John Owen in one of his interviews (I guess in 2020) a while back said, they were happy that everybody spoke about their engine and not the aero. He was surprised nobody was copying their aero and everyone was looking at Red Bull to copy. He was happy with that situation because engine was hiding and was not easy to copy whereas aero was visible to naked eye and easily copyable.

You easily copy an engine by literally buying the best engine available. lol
You cannot do that witha aero.

[AMG.Tzan]

I agree totally and Sainz had a good race with overtakes, Hamilton did basically nothing just driving and grabbed the position because of his faster car but added nothing to it.

Did nothing? It's fine disliking a guy but you make yourself look a bit silly saying stuff like that.

Well watch the race, he hardly overtake anybody on his first set of tires, profited from the people who pitted and his car was faster anyways and better deg and then went to red tires and overtook a williams, at and a broken Alpine. Don’t make things big if they are not big just_a_hamilton_fan.

This isn’t a forum to come and troll!

You cannot comment such things about Hamilton when Verstapen is winning every race easily without even starting in the top 10, just by having a much much faster car!

By your own comments Verstapen’s Hungary, Spa and Monza wins weren’t anything big or special! Just a driver having a much faster cars and opponents faltering all the time…

[chrisc90]

Did nothing? It's fine disliking a guy but you make yourself look a bit silly saying stuff like that.

Well watch the race, he hardly overtake anybody on his first set of tires, profited from the people who pitted and his car was faster anyways and better deg and then went to red tires and overtook a williams, at and a broken Alpine. Don’t make things big if they are not big just_a_hamilton_fan.

This isn’t a forum to come and troll!

You cannot comment such things about Hamilton when Verstapen is winning every race easily without even starting in the top 10, just by having a much much faster car!

By your own comments Verstapen’s Hungary, Spa and Monza wins weren’t anything big or special! Just a driver having a much faster cars and opponents faltering all the time…

A bit like the 2014 onwards era for Hamilton then....

[mzivtins]

As much as this result isn't what I personally wanted, finishing under SC was fair and square, a red flag would have also been faur but would have ought into question it's use.

I cannot believe the fans booing the winner. Red bull were not driving the safety car. The fans should boo the organizers, not the drivers.

This is crazy, same as the end of last year, red bull and merc did nothing wrong, the gripe was with the way the FIA handled things but it seems most fans are so stupid that they get into fights with people who have nothing to do with the source of their issue!

Shame for the winner to go through that

[McL-H]

Well watch the race, he hardly overtake anybody on his first set of tires, profited from the people who pitted and his car was faster anyways and better deg and then went to red tires and overtook a williams, at and a broken Alpine. Don’t make things big if they are not big just_a_hamilton_fan.

This isn’t a forum to come and troll!

You cannot comment such things about Hamilton when Verstapen is winning every race easily without even starting in the top 10, just by having a much much faster car!

By your own comments Verstapen’s Hungary, Spa and Monza wins weren’t anything big or special! Just a driver having a much faster cars and opponents faltering all the time…

A bit like the 2014 onwards era for Hamilton then....

No. Hamilton at least had competitive teammates. It’s more comparable to the Schumacher days. Dominant car. Weak teammates. Not trying to take anything away from Max’s performance though. He is stellar.

[AR3-GP]

All these Merc fans pretending this was A, a good way to finish and B the same as AbuDhabi. There the car got cleaned up quicker, the SC got in front of the CORRECT car, the entire field was already in position. Here, none of that, the field hadn’t even been collected behind the SC. What to do. You can’t start even if you want, the drivers simply weren’t there yet.

This forum, things people feel free to write. Lacks any basic common sense. Or, better said, it isn’t lacking likely, but just gone through extreme length to get the outcome you want. Ignoring reality.

It's "cut off the nose to spite the face" as they say. People pretending to be happy that today's race ended under SC and that everything was fine all because of you know what...

Neither race should have ended under SC.