2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

[TAG]

just to lighten the thread up a little...

[henry]

Agreed. Just blaming Rosberg is denying the underlying issue. It's heartless racing between those 2 basically.

It's not heartless it's irresponsible.

They both had an opportunity to avoid this and neither did. It was the same in Barcelona. Rosberg precipitated an opportunity to collide and Hamilton took it in both cases. In this race Sainz chopped Perez in a similar fashion to Rosberg's Barcelona chop and Perez avoided leaving the road. They touched tyres but no more.

Were I Mercedes management I'd be furious with them both. They have been provided with a car of unequaled dominance and whenever they get close together they run each other off the road at best and collide if one doesn't "chicken", risking Mercedes' quest for the dominance that the other 1000 employees deserve.

I know more responsible 6 year olds.

I think heartless and irresponsible go hand in hand here. I can understand you'd do this to a driver from a different team, but you are outright risking big points for your team when it involves your teammate. Wolf was absolutely right this is disrespectful towards the 1,500 employees of the team.

It's probably more than disrespectful. I don't know, but I guess, there are probably financial bonuses for many of the team, be they trackside or back at base, contingent on things like wins, or 1 2s or WCC points or whatever. So they should be doing their level best to maximise the results for their team mates. "I'm really grateful to the team for providing me with such a wonderful car" but not enough that I won't bash it against my teammate's if that'll make my position in life better.

Oh and it doesn't matter if it's your teammate or someone else. They should race fairly and see if they, and their team, are good enough. Anything else diminishes them and their "achievements".

[Jolle]

Agreed. Just blaming Rosberg is denying the underlying issue. It's heartless racing between those 2 basically.

It's not heartless it's irresponsible.

They both had an opportunity to avoid this and neither did. It was the same in Barcelona. Rosberg precipitated an opportunity to collide and Hamilton took it in both cases. In this race Sainz chopped Perez in a similar fashion to Rosberg's Barcelona chop and Perez avoided leaving the road. They touched tyres but no more.

Were I Mercedes management I'd be furious with them both. They have been provided with a car of unequaled dominance and whenever they get close together they run each other off the road at best and collide if one doesn't "chicken", risking Mercedes' quest for the dominance that the other 1000 employees deserve.

I know more responsible 6 year olds.

Three things:

1. Merc gave Nico an unfair advantage through strategy, so it is not in their place to be furious after they had been so irresponsible. There is nothing worse for any teams performance/cohesion than for its management to appear to be unfair to one or more members.

2. Nico tried to "squeeze" a car that was already ahead. There's only one way that could have ended - a crash.

3. There is no obvious way Lewis could have avoided a T-bone given his and Nico's trajectories, speeds and the geometry of the corner.

Mercedes would have had a lot more points if Rosberg, in Barcelona and in Austria, had driven how a leader of the WC would have done. Hell, looking a Verstappen in Canada, in a slow car fending off a Merc, on the edge, but fair!

The 18 y/o Dutchman got more points since he's in the RedBull then the WC leader Rosberg did in the mighty Mercedes.

[PlatinumZealot]

But, correct if I am wrong, Hamilton has not by my knowing deliberately start turning way after the apex...

Rosberg didn't turn away from the apex. Hamilton started his turn at a point that would allow him to take the ideal line through the corner, and he assumed Rosberg would back off, but that didn't happen. Rosberg just kept going.

Below is precisely where it started...

http://i.imgur.com/cekMWNU.jpg

Hamilton was under no obligation to turn when he did, because he had upwards of 75' of track ahead of him. But, he wanted the ideal line.

It was a racing incident.

It was not a racing incident. It was a malicious attack to punt his title rival off the road.

Your two frames there don't show much. Watch Anthony Davidson's video. Rosberg knew he was beat even before the corner, but instead of braking earlier and falling behind, Rosberg rode it out to casualty. A bit desperate and unwise, but it is all he could do. Hamilton saw that desperation - which was surprising to him I'm sure - and he left Rosberg gobs of room because he knew the battle was over no matter what lines they took. Even if Rosberg made the apex he would lose on traction and run wide. If Rosberg took the wide line - while leaving a car's width as (he didn't do), Hamilton would take him on the switch over. But before those two normal scenarios could play out, in his continued desperation, Rosberg the chance came up to punt Lewis off and he took it. It was a risk of them both crashing but risk worth taking because the points gap would remain and If he could come out unscathed it would be a bonus.

Rosberg is no idiot. He is a calculating man, and he knows there is value in making Lewis fear him. His attempts to scare lewis, or teach lewis a lesson as another poster put it, have so far backfired.

I am very disappointed that Rosberg would perpetuate his lies in that video though. Pure lies from start to finish. He starts stuttering as soon as he starts.

[f1316]

I think the point is that normally teammates would never race as hard as either has today or before. I personally think that Hamilton has got away with others much like this, just that they were less dramatic in their circumstances and outcomes. That, in and of itself, certainly does not make Rosberg's move correct; then again, I think both did their upmost to win the race, and I find that much more interesting than not attempting or defending the move.

Still, what I really don't understand is apportioning blame and giving a toothless punishment. If you really think it's Rosberg's fault, then you have to give a meaningful consequence.

[Sonador]

The 18 y/o Dutchman got more points since he's in the RedBull then the WC leader Rosberg did in the mighty Mercedes.

It was a joy to watch Verstappen today, Raikönnen must "hate " him for fending him of a seccond time like this.
I was almost sure he was going the overtake Verstappen, he had lost a lot of grip the final laps of the race .

Raikönnen was lapping more than a seccond a lap faster then Max, but could not get ahead =D>
He is so good in wheel to wheel battles, amazing to watch.

[basti313]

I hope we get a crashfree thread tomorrow, like after Spain.

[PlatinumZealot]

My mistake was forgetting that race threads are incapable of nuance.

Oops.

I get your point. We disagree on the racing details, but effectively you should not be attempting any form of squeezing in the first place on your team mate. Trying to squeeze by taking the racing line can just as well lead to a crash. If I really had to draw a line in the sand, I would do it like described in my previous comments. But really trying to do this at all is just madness. Rosberg is doing this only because Hamilton squeezed out Rosberg in the past. It's what you get when you have 2 drivers having zero respect for one another. It's also why I laugh at Toto's threat with team orders: like they'll ever follow those.

I disagree that you can't squeeze. Squeezing is a part of racing. The fairness of it lies in where and how you squeeze.

[Jolle]

The 18 y/o Dutchman got more points since he's in the RedBull then the WC leader Rosberg did in the mighty Mercedes.

It was a joy to watch Verstappen today, Raikönnen must "hate " him for fending him of a seccond time like this.
I was almost sure he was going the overtake Verstappen, he had lost a lot of grip the final laps of the race .

Raikönnen was lapping more than a seccond a lap faster then Max, but could not get ahead =D>
He is so good in wheel to wheel battles, amazing to watch.

Nah, Kimi is just very happy that Verstappen has a long term contract with RedBull

[turbof1]

I hope we get a crashfree thread tomorrow, like after Spain.

Awesome idea. I propose that we leave this thread open tomorrow yet, but after that I close it and open a crashfree topic.

[Jolle]

My mistake was forgetting that race threads are incapable of nuance.

Oops.

I get your point. We disagree on the racing details, but effectively you should not be attempting any form of squeezing in the first place on your team mate. Trying to squeeze by taking the racing line can just as well lead to a crash. If I really had to draw a line in the sand, I would do it like described in my previous comments. But really trying to do this at all is just madness. Rosberg is doing this only because Hamilton squeezed out Rosberg in the past. It's what you get when you have 2 drivers having zero respect for one another. It's also why I laugh at Toto's threat with team orders: like they'll ever follow those.

I disagree that you can't squeeze. Squeezing is a part of racing. The fairness of it lies in where and how you squeeze.

It also depends what the team orders would be.

What if Toto and Niki would ban Nico from defending his position more then a car's whith from the racing line? Just that would have saved Mercedes at least 50 points.

[turbof1]

My mistake was forgetting that race threads are incapable of nuance.

Oops.

I get your point. We disagree on the racing details, but effectively you should not be attempting any form of squeezing in the first place on your team mate. Trying to squeeze by taking the racing line can just as well lead to a crash. If I really had to draw a line in the sand, I would do it like described in my previous comments. But really trying to do this at all is just madness. Rosberg is doing this only because Hamilton squeezed out Rosberg in the past. It's what you get when you have 2 drivers having zero respect for one another. It's also why I laugh at Toto's threat with team orders: like they'll ever follow those.

I disagree that you can't squeeze. Squeezing is a part of racing. The fairness of it lies in where and how you squeeze.

Squeezing in terms of pushing your opponent to the edge of the track is fine. The squeezing we have seen from these 2 is purposely pushing your team mate beyond the limits of the track and effectively running them off/out of road. Still, for the sake of the team who give you the car to race, you should always be more lenient towards your teammate. You are not out there racing purely for your own interests after all.

[bhall II]

It was not a racing incident. It was a malicious attack to punt his title rival off the road.

Again...

"...I went deep to keep him outside a little bit.."! #FromTheHorsesMouth

"When you are on the outside you have to expect that. It's tough for sure, but this is not a friendly game of chess..."

~ Lewis Hamilton, Suzuka 2015

The point here is not to absolve anyone of anything, only to say that what happened wasn't so far out of line that it should be considered unreasonable.

Sometimes --- happens.

[PlatinumZealot]

The 18 y/o Dutchman got more points since he's in the RedBull then the WC leader Rosberg did in the mighty Mercedes.

It was a joy to watch Verstappen today, Raikönnen must "hate " him for fending him of a seccond time like this.
I was almost sure he was going the overtake Verstappen, he had lost a lot of grip the final laps of the race .

Raikönnen was lapping more than a seccond a lap faster then Max, but could not get ahead =D>
He is so good in wheel to wheel battles, amazing to watch.

It was the yellow flags that save Max. Max is great,but he is not the Pirreli tyre Deity!

[Sonador]

The 18 y/o Dutchman got more points since he's in the RedBull then the WC leader Rosberg did in the mighty Mercedes.

It was a joy to watch Verstappen today, Raikönnen must "hate " him for fending him of a seccond time like this.
I was almost sure he was going the overtake Verstappen, he had lost a lot of grip the final laps of the race .

Raikönnen was lapping more than a seccond a lap faster then Max, but could not get ahead =D>
He is so good in wheel to wheel battles, amazing to watch.

It was the yellow flags that save Max. Max is great,but he is not the Pirreli tyre Deity!

I agree, he is not a Deity, just a kid still.
But how do you explain his tyre deg compared to Ricciardo?
Soley to running in cleaner air?