2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[LionsHeart]

From what we've seen they can design a package and work out which work best to bring to a track. In reality if they don't bring a track specific wing they sometimes trial different BW like Ferrari did with the Double and Single element BW at Monza.

But this wing has been tested and I think they will understand what it needs.

Again, it looks to me like a Medium DF wing and I think Stella did say something along the lines of the big wing is offset by the cutout which lowers downforce but gives you a better overall DF/Drag ratio.

So this wasn't maximum downforce at Singapore which might explain why the high speed corners weren't as great as they could be. The solution seems totally appropriate for Suzuka.

Such a wing cannot be called for average downforce. More like medium-high as required in Bahrain. And yes, I also assume that it produces less downforce than the Monaco wing.

Agree to disagree lol It may be Upper Medium, not sure. I'd imagine if we used variations of it in the season it is fairly balanced, the cutouts then lower the downforce but ultimately we don't know the numbers. But we can agree Singapore didn't use a high DF wing.

You are sure? There are 7 slow turns in Singapore.

[LionsHeart]

May I suggest we take these posts to the car thread? It would be better fitting there. I've made a post there to continue the conversation.

Yeah sure, I think I was suggesting that Singapore wasn't using a high DF wing and that we've had the same wing for much of the season with a variation on those winglets and the cutout which turned into a converstion about Monaco's wing compared to Mecedes Monaco wing, to demonstrate a high DF wing and that fact we haven't really used a high DF wing this season.

But for me that's kinda done now.

I see that you are a smart comrade. But I don't agree with you that in Zandvoort and Singapore the team used a medium downforce rear wing. I can argue with words and confirm with photographs.

Based on your words, I assumed that the team uses the same wing with some modifications? So the wing used in Singapore is the wing that was used by the team at Silverstone? In order not to offend, I would like to understand what specific wing specification do you mean? It’s just that this is a completely new rear wing and has never been used in combat before except in Singapore.

[mwillems]

May I suggest we take these posts to the car thread? It would be better fitting there. I've made a post there to continue the conversation.

Yeah sure, I think I was suggesting that Singapore wasn't using a high DF wing and that we've had the same wing for much of the season with a variation on those winglets and the cutout which turned into a converstion about Monaco's wing compared to Mecedes Monaco wing, to demonstrate a high DF wing and that fact we haven't really used a high DF wing this season.

But for me that's kinda done now.

I see that you are a smart comrade. But I don't agree with you that in Zandvoort and Singapore the team used a medium downforce rear wing. I can argue with words and confirm with photographs.

Based on your words, I assumed that the team uses the same wing with some modifications? So the wing used in Singapore is the wing that was used by the team at Silverstone? In order not to offend, I would like to understand what specific wing specification do you mean? It’s just that this is a completely new rear wing and has never been used in combat before except in Singapore.

I was suggesting it is derivative of the wing in Silverstone. It looks the same apart from the winglets as far as I can see. I posted pics of the Merc Monaco wing and that was huge, so that is a representative example of a high DF rear wing. The pics of the Silverstone wing are here, as is the Suzuka, what differences can you see?

[mwillems]

Such a wing cannot be called for average downforce. More like medium-high as required in Bahrain. And yes, I also assume that it produces less downforce than the Monaco wing.

Agree to disagree lol It may be Upper Medium, not sure. I'd imagine if we used variations of it in the season it is fairly balanced, the cutouts then lower the downforce but ultimately we don't know the numbers. But we can agree Singapore didn't use a high DF wing.

You are sure? There are 7 slow turns in Singapore.

Based on the wing, no, it doesn't look like a high downforce wing, and we did pretty ok.

Slow is generally considered a speed of 120kph or less as far as I am aware, of which there are 5 down from 8, I think it's a fair difference, especially since those four corners then became one long straight with a high speed turn that isn't a turn. Average lap time is at least 10 seconds quicker. It was actually 21 seconds from Qualy from year to year but last season was damp. Fp2 times were around 15s quicker I think, I looked earlier but can't remember exactly.

[LionsHeart]

Yeah sure, I think I was suggesting that Singapore wasn't using a high DF wing and that we've had the same wing for much of the season with a variation on those winglets and the cutout which turned into a converstion about Monaco's wing compared to Mecedes Monaco wing, to demonstrate a high DF wing and that fact we haven't really used a high DF wing this season.

But for me that's kinda done now.

I see that you are a smart comrade. But I don't agree with you that in Zandvoort and Singapore the team used a medium downforce rear wing. I can argue with words and confirm with photographs.

Based on your words, I assumed that the team uses the same wing with some modifications? So the wing used in Singapore is the wing that was used by the team at Silverstone? In order not to offend, I would like to understand what specific wing specification do you mean? It’s just that this is a completely new rear wing and has never been used in combat before except in Singapore.

I was suggesting it is derivative of the wing in Silverstone. It looks the same apart from the winglets as far as I can see. I posted pics of the Merc Monaco wing and that was huge, so that is a representative example of a high DF rear wing. The pics of the Silverstone wing are here, as is the Suzuka, what differences can you see?

Yes, I understand what you mean. I didn't understand this earlier. But now I will make an argument to show that these wings are similar, but produce different levels of downforce. To do this, you will have to look for photographs to make it clearer.

[mwillems]

I see that you are a smart comrade. But I don't agree with you that in Zandvoort and Singapore the team used a medium downforce rear wing. I can argue with words and confirm with photographs.

Based on your words, I assumed that the team uses the same wing with some modifications? So the wing used in Singapore is the wing that was used by the team at Silverstone? In order not to offend, I would like to understand what specific wing specification do you mean? It’s just that this is a completely new rear wing and has never been used in combat before except in Singapore.

I was suggesting it is derivative of the wing in Silverstone. It looks the same apart from the winglets as far as I can see. I posted pics of the Merc Monaco wing and that was huge, so that is a representative example of a high DF rear wing. The pics of the Silverstone wing are here, as is the Suzuka, what differences can you see?

Yes, I understand what you mean. I didn't understand this earlier. But now I will make an argument to show that these wings are similar, but produce different levels of downforce. To do this, you will have to look for photographs to make it clearer.

I think I posted them earlier? I've put in the car thread.

[mwillems]

I see that you are a smart comrade. But I don't agree with you that in Zandvoort and Singapore the team used a medium downforce rear wing. I can argue with words and confirm with photographs.

Based on your words, I assumed that the team uses the same wing with some modifications? So the wing used in Singapore is the wing that was used by the team at Silverstone? In order not to offend, I would like to understand what specific wing specification do you mean? It’s just that this is a completely new rear wing and has never been used in combat before except in Singapore.

I was suggesting it is derivative of the wing in Silverstone. It looks the same apart from the winglets as far as I can see. I posted pics of the Merc Monaco wing and that was huge, so that is a representative example of a high DF rear wing. The pics of the Silverstone wing are here, as is the Suzuka, what differences can you see?

Yes, I understand what you mean. I didn't understand this earlier. But now I will make an argument to show that these wings are similar, but produce different levels of downforce. To do this, you will have to look for photographs to make it clearer.

Answered in the car thread. Let's keep it to one place now.

[BMMR61]

Agree to disagree lol It may be Upper Medium, not sure. I'd imagine if we used variations of it in the season it is fairly balanced, the cutouts then lower the downforce but ultimately we don't know the numbers. But we can agree Singapore didn't use a high DF wing.

You are sure? There are 7 slow turns in Singapore.

Based on the wing, no, it doesn't look like a high downforce wing, and we did pretty ok.

Slow is generally considered a speed of 120kph or less as far as I am aware, of which there are 5 down from 8, I think it's a fair difference, especially since those four corners then became one long straight with a high speed turn that isn't a turn. Average lap time is at least 10 seconds quicker. It was actually 21 seconds from Qualy from year to year but last season was damp. Fp2 times were around 15s quicker I think, I looked earlier but can't remember exactly.

Representative times of the straightened Singapore track were 10 seconds quicker, damp qualifying in 2022 made comparisons pointless so we can settle on 10 seconds quicker on track with four less 90 degree corners and a considerably faster straight.

I’m pleased to see the more detailed aero chat transfer to the car thread. However, deep breath, can I enquire from the more investigative, are we seeing an evolution of the “Zandvoort wing” being brought to Suzuka? Is the Silverstone wing “low/med df” no longer being used? If so why when it was great at Silverstone? Suzuka only has the long slow left handed hairpin (11?) and the final chicane and the rest is med/fast to fast - simplistic I know but hints at a RW config in the med/fast zone. McLaren haven’t produced the longed for since Spa, low df wing which would have been the weapon at Monza, no? So I’m feeling a bit confused about the clearly different RW designs currently in the armoury.
I’d have been quite eager to see something like the Silverstone spec brought albeit with the big evo from Singapore producing exciting opportunities on a track which should suit.

[BMMR61]

The controversial technical views of Gary Anderson.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/gary ... or-suzuka/

Gary tends to be negative in things McLaren so his positivity is encouraging. For sure, Suzuka is the track I’ve been looking forward to since Silverstone.
If MCL can unleash some high speed corner speed it should be able to qualify ahead of Ferrari. Regulated pace at Singapore masked their tyre deg issues, I doubt that will be possible with a rejuvenated RedBull. Hopes therefore with realism are for second fastest with a much closer gap.

[mwillems]

You are sure? There are 7 slow turns in Singapore.

Based on the wing, no, it doesn't look like a high downforce wing, and we did pretty ok.

Slow is generally considered a speed of 120kph or less as far as I am aware, of which there are 5 down from 8, I think it's a fair difference, especially since those four corners then became one long straight with a high speed turn that isn't a turn. Average lap time is at least 10 seconds quicker. It was actually 21 seconds from Qualy from year to year but last season was damp. Fp2 times were around 15s quicker I think, I looked earlier but can't remember exactly.

Representative times of the straightened Singapore track were 10 seconds quicker, damp qualifying in 2022 made comparisons pointless so we can settle on 10 seconds quicker on track with four less 90 degree corners and a considerably faster straight.

I’m pleased to see the more detailed aero chat transfer to the car thread. However, deep breath, can I enquire from the more investigative, are we seeing an evolution of the “Zandvoort wing” being brought to Suzuka? Is the Silverstone wing “low/med df” no longer being used? If so why when it was great at Silverstone? Suzuka only has the long slow left handed hairpin (11?) and the final chicane and the rest is med/fast to fast - simplistic I know but hints at a RW config in the med/fast zone. McLaren haven’t produced the longed for since Spa, low df wing which would have been the weapon at Monza, no? So I’m feeling a bit confused about the clearly different RW designs currently in the armoury.
I’d have been quite eager to see something like the Silverstone spec brought albeit with the big evo from Singapore producing exciting opportunities on a track which should suit.

You do realise your asking questions that we were discussing and then glad not to see...?

Yes 10s is my best guess, everything you said about why seems to be the same as what I said.

Silverstone was not a low DF wing, Monza was though. Silverstone was a med df wing.

[Dafnalina]

Another performance update

[LionsHeart]

Lando use Silverstone spec rear wing. Specially news for mwillems.

[mwillems]

Lando use Silverstone spec rear wing. Specially news for mwillems.

https://i.ibb.co/k2WNg3L/BDC5-A54-B-B6- ... 0-ABB3.png
https://i.ibb.co/6btSPkG/FBEF8412-CA8-E ... 6-EAB4.png

Interesting language here they refer to it as both their High DF wing and their Highest DF wing....

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... ring-room/

Perhaps the high DF wings of old (And Monaco) are gone now with the additional DF from the floor, but these wings are closely related in performance and will likely have some overlap, hence the testing of the two at Suzuka to see which works best, this is very different from the old High DF wings and ones used at Monaco and other tracks by the other teams.



An example of last years Mclaren wing, mare aggressive than this years.

So it is all relative of course but those Singapore wings are noticeably smaller than both Last year and Monaco, apart from Mclaren who did not produce a specialist High DF wing. Even last year Mclaren ran with a much thicker and wider bottom element but the all black wing is a bit hard to see on a dark track. Again it didn't have the winglets and for that reason it was also producing more DF. So relative to other wings we have this is our high DF wing (Upper Med), but it is not a high DF wing relative to the DF they can efficiently run if they choose to or wings that have run this and last year. In that range these wings are quite sensible, hence I refer to them all as being closer to med downforce RW. And this may be because of the grip the floors themselves now produce, as well as the track layout changes.

Merc did not run their Monaco wing at Singapore because they don't need that downforce from the wing here because it didn't need that high a DF wing, so they have that blunt trauma DF available but they didn't use it because it wasn't suitable for this track, like the other teams at Monaco who did not bring those high DF wings to Singapore..

The cars are too good now, we don't need actual high DF wings anywhere but Monaco.

[MrGapes]

Car had way less deg than most teams, also were the only cars that actually ran closely behind, soo race pace doesn't look to bad..

[LionsHeart]

Lando use Silverstone spec rear wing. Specially news for mwillems.

https://i.ibb.co/k2WNg3L/BDC5-A54-B-B6- ... 0-ABB3.png
https://i.ibb.co/6btSPkG/FBEF8412-CA8-E ... 6-EAB4.png

Interesting language here they refer to it as both their High DF wing and their Highest DF wing....

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... ring-room/

Perhaps the high DF wings of old (And Monaco) are gone now with the additional DF from the floor, but these wings are closely related in performance and will likely have some overlap, hence the testing of the two at Suzuka to see which works best, this is very different from the old High DF wings and ones used at Monaco and other tracks by the other teams.

https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race ... 24x684.jpg

An example of last years Mclaren wing, mare aggressive than this years.

So it is all relative of course but those Singapore wings are noticeably smaller than both Last year and Monaco, apart from Mclaren who did not produce a specialist High DF wing. Even last year Mclaren ran with a much thicker and wider bottom element but the all black wing is a bit hard to see on a dark track. Again it didn't have the winglets and for that reason it was also producing more DF. So relative to other wings we have this is our high DF wing (Upper Med), but it is not a high DF wing relative to the DF they can efficiently run if they choose to or wings that have run this and last year. In that range these wings are quite sensible, hence I refer to them all as being closer to med downforce RW. And this may be because of the grip the floors themselves now produce, as well as the track layout changes.

Merc did not run their Monaco wing at Singapore because they don't need that downforce from the wing here because it didn't need that high a DF wing, so they have that blunt trauma DF available but they didn't use it because it wasn't suitable for this track, like the other teams at Monaco who did not bring those high DF wings to Singapore..

The cars are too good now, we don't need actual high DF wings anywhere but Monaco.

There are a lot of misconceptions on your part about which wing creates what amount of downforce. I see no point in continuing this discussion, since I already spoke about it yesterday. In Singapore there was a wing with high downforce, the team confirms this with the words of an engineer. There was no average downforce there. I brought photos yesterday and now today. Silverstone's specification can be fully described as medium downforce.

The Monaco wing specification is the maximum peak downforce that McLaren has, moreover, it has not been changed since last year, I previously thought otherwise until I saw it myself and realized that I was mistaken about this.

The most important thing is that the team finds the fastest settings for each track and is as competitive as possible.