2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

[sosic2121]

FIA Regulations
3.18.12.Blue lights at the Pit Lane exit: a fast Vehicle on the Track must be let
through

Blue flag for Lewis....

Do you think if this was true for this accident Horner wouldn't be all over it like a slug..

There actually was a blue flag but I guess it's one of those things that's traditionally ignored in F1.

[PlatinumZealot]

Thing is it’s still a Verstappen win. Mercedes we’re probably favourites in Russia anyway.
Now if this penalty was on a later track? Different story.

Only thing won is psychological advantage to Lewis and Mercedes. Though it still seemed that way after Siverstone.

[sosic2121]

Despite the imo out of proportion penalty in comparison with Silverstone, Red Bull had it coming somehow. Why didn’t they do the undercut on Ricciardo? Did they underestimate the lap time advantage of a fresh set?

They tried to overcut him and messed up the pitstop completely...

I think they went for the undercut but mclaren reacted to their mechanics with their own.

When Ric entered pit, RB mechanics were ready for max, but returned to garage

[Wouter]

It's shocking that this is what it takes for Max to be penalized;

a wheel on a driver's head with Max saying that the driver deserves that treatment.

Do you have a link where he said that or is it just a lie?

[Just_a_fan]

FIA Regulations
3.18.12.Blue lights at the Pit Lane exit: a fast Vehicle on the Track must be let
through

Blue flag for Lewis....

Do you think if this was true for this accident Horner wouldn't be all over it like a slug..

There actually was a blue flag but I guess it's one of those things that's traditionally ignored in F1.

Blue flags tell drivers that there is a car close by as well as the "get out of the way you're being lapped" that we see most often. Blue flags only mean "get out of the way" when a driver is being lapped. At the exit of the pit lane, the flag/light tells the exiting driver that there are cars approaching. If the cars are on the track where the pit exit lane is marked, the exiting driver has to let them go by before exiting the pits.

So any blue flag in the incident in question is irrelevant as the pit exit lane was clearly available for Hamilton to use, and he wasn't being lapped and so was under no obligation to "get out of the way".

[Tvetovnato]

Thing is it’s still a Verstappen win. Mercedes we’re probably favourites in Russia anyway.
Now if this penalty was on a later track? Different story.

The favourite tag on Merc in Russia is placed on them by Red Bull. It’s a medium downforce circuit, and Red Bull has the best car at those circuits this year. Doesn’t matter what happened the years before.

Which is why Verstappens move today is even more nonsensical. He had all to lose from it, and now with the penalty, a risk to give away points at the next race instead.

[Steven]

Oh man the stewarding today...

Horner said race control did not tell them that Perez had to give that place back, so RBR "got their heads down" and went on with it (of course, they could've been smarter themselves, but anyway). And then, later, an investigation is launched and a penalty given.

Two problems here:
- The stewards' decisions are too slow
- RBR and Perez were just too opportunistic. Any reasonable person saw Perez gained the position by going off track...

[Just_a_fan]

That covers it beautifully I think, although I am a bit more reluctant regarding the penalty - in Silverstone, the penalty was in place because one driver crashed and the other did not. Here, both were punished with their DNF. No need to carry it over to the next race. (edit: ok, Max would have done better asking for Lewis being OK too, overlooked that in the above)

A penalty was given because one driver was found to more at fault than the the other. It wasn't a racing incident. Thus a penalty is due. As both drivers were out of the race it is only fair that the penalty due to the driver found to be most at fault is served at the next opportunity - at the next race.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Shocking comments.

You serious? Please do explain what is shocking to you. As I can’t for the life of me figure that out

you blame Max fine. Then you completely miss the time of events to construct a narrative

Max made those comments after his car had ridden over the top of LHs. You think that is unnecessary and childish? It's telling that his first comments was to shift blame, it wasn't a comment to accquire knowledge about LHs health or a comment after witnessed LH reversing. It's about your apologistic attitude to it when it's typical and not a one off. It's not childish at all, even now he's tweeted "Today was very unfortunate. The incident could have been avoided if I had been left enough space to make the corner. You need 2 people to make that work and I feel I was squeezed out of it. When racing each other, these things can happen, unfortunately"..

Yes, your comments are absolutely shocking..

https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamilton ... nza-crash/

I honestly still have no idea what you’re on about wrt my comments being shocking? You made no attempt to actually explain what is shocking. I’m not being apologetic at all as far as I can see and also I cannot see where I misrepresent the timings of the event? Read the article and you see for yourself what the two protagonists had to say about it. Flummoxed!

[taperoo2k]

A 3 place grid drop is about the right punishment for Max, he showed a real lack of maturity and
judgement there. He'd have been better off bailing on the move early and regrouping for another
overtake attempt later. If not for the roll cage hoop and the halo plus Lewis lowering his head, we could have been talking about something much worse. From what I've seen on twitter etc some are not really appreciating just how lucky Lewis is and how much trouble Max could have gotten himself into.

One thing that's always irritated me about Max is his expectation that other drivers will simply move out of his way, just because he's there. I hope Max will learn from this and improve as a driver, he's got some rough edges that could cost him this year's title.

[Just_a_fan]

Oh man the stewarding today...

Horner said race control did not tell them that Perez had to give that place back, so RBR "got their heads down" and went on with it (of course, they could've been smarter themselves, but anyway). And then, later, an investigation is launched and a penalty given.

Two problems here:
- The stewards' decisions are too slow
- RBR and Perez were just too opportunistic. Any reasonable person saw Perez gained the position by going off track...

RBR knew full well that Perez had to give the place back. They didn't tell him to do so becasue they knew that with his pace, he would cause issues for Bottas and hence reduce Mercedes constructors' points tally. The way that Bottas was catching the front runners it was obvious that he had a reasonable chance of taking either a podium or the win. Perez blocked Bottas from trying to attack the McLarens. It was a professional foul, in effect, because not only did he gain advantage over one driver by going off track, he ruined another's chances of a better finish. It's similar to RBR having Perez give up his own points in order to take the fastest lap away from Hamilton at Silverstone. It's legal, of course, but it's a little underhand.

[Just_a_fan]

Considering the 10s time penalty for Lewis got after the 300km/hour Silverstone incident (which RB also costs budget ánd engine penalty), this 3 place grid drop seems a bit odd, even tough it might have been a bit too opertunistic

Stewards don't decide based on outcome, only on actions.

The damage to Lewis's car is quite extensive - the roll structure might be damaged too, although it might just be superficial bodywork that was destroyed. If the roll hoop is damaged, that's potentially a big repair as it's integral to the tub.

So Max's actions will have cost Mercedes budget - as well as his own team's budget too, of course.

[PlatinumZealot]

A 3 place grid drop is about the right punishment for Max, he showed a real lack of maturity and
judgement there. He'd have been better off bailing on the move early and regrouping for another
overtake attempt later. If not for the roll cage hoop and the halo plus Lewis lowering his head, we could have been talking about something much worse. From what I've seen on twitter etc some are not really appreciating just how lucky Lewis is and how much trouble Max could have gotten himself into.

One thing that's always irritated me about Max is his expectation that other drivers will simply move out of his way, just because he's there. I hope Max will learn from this and improve as a driver, he's got some rough edges that could cost him this year's title.

Whole heartedly agree. I have experienced spinal (cervical? ) compression from out in the field and it isn't nice to say the least. Basically a tank lid weighning about 50 pounds bonked me on the head.

Lewis may seem fine now, but when the swelling sets in tonight, it will be a very painful sleep for him. Hopefully one week with medication is enough to keep inflamation down and thank God Sochi is not a sustained G-force track.

If the Halo wasn't there definitely you might be seeing a something quite nasty. Something I don't want to imagine.

I think Max should not have attempted that move knowing the sausage curb was there. It was overly optimistic by any angle. It was clear that he was not setting up to lead into turn three but to flip the coin, bang wheels and pray to end up the better of the two.

Punishment I think should have been a five placer but I cant complain. Just glad there are no serious injuries.

[Just_a_fan]

The fact people here genuinely buy this ''Verstappen did it deliberately'' nonsense Hill and Herbert were paddling tells you all you need to know about the loyalties here.

I really like this paragraph from the stewards' document:

''But further, the
Stewards observed that Car 33 was not at all alongside Car 44 until significantly into
the entry into Turn 1. In the opinion of the Stewards, this manoeuvre was attempted
too late for the driver of Car 33 to have “the right to racing room”''

They must've been watching a different race today, I guess.

Indeed. During the race, Brundle was talking about how alongside means the front axle of the car behind vs. the rear axle of the car in front.

You can see here than Verstappen’s front axle is well ahead of the rear axle of Hamilton, well before Hamilton makes it to the apex of T1.
https://i.postimg.cc/pTgfXHKd/93-C9-C8 ... 124-FB.png

The stewards were definitely watching a different race if that’s their reasoning for the penalty.

The key issue appears to be that the move was undertaken too late. Max was trying to go around the outside, not stay around the outside. If they had been side by side all the way through the corner until the point of impact, I think Hamilton would have been penalised. But as Max tried to accelerate around the outside, they found Max at fault.

[ringo]

Oh man the stewarding today...

Horner said race control did not tell them that Perez had to give that place back, so RBR "got their heads down" and went on with it (of course, they could've been smarter themselves, but anyway). And then, later, an investigation is launched and a penalty given.

Two problems here:
- The stewards' decisions are too slow
- RBR and Perez were just too opportunistic. Any reasonable person saw Perez gained the position by going off track...

RBR knew full well that Perez had to give the place back. They didn't tell him to do so becasue they knew that with his pace, he would cause issues for Bottas and hence reduce Mercedes constructors' points tally. The way that Bottas was catching the front runners it was obvious that he had a reasonable chance of taking either a podium or the win. Perez blocked Bottas from trying to attack the McLarens. It was a professional foul, in effect, because not only did he gain advantage over one driver by going off track, he ruined another's chances of a better finish. It's similar to RBR having Perez give up his own points in order to take the fastest lap away from Hamilton at Silverstone. It's legal, of course, but it's a little underhand.

Okay interesting view on Perez. It's practically two technical fouls this race. It made sense for Redbull to be penalized both for stopping Bottas and for stopping Lewis.

In some way as said before, this could be master stroke by redbull. They still come out ahead in the drivers title.
And in Sochi it is likely they can be the fastest there, so 3 places is not a bad deal. Max can do an alternate strategy to win from P-4 if he takes pole there.
Perez can do well to qualify even in the top 4 or 5 and factor into the strategy.

Mercedes came off bad with Lewis regarding his title challenge. The car will not get any faster and there are challenging circuits ahead.

Ferrari have taken a big blow to fighting for 3rd place. They need to pull out all the stops to finish ahead of Mclaren. Though they can take comfort in knowing that they are competing with the worst engine against the best and that they are fighting.