2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[bosyber]

Well I happen to agree it probably should be djones, but look at what response that got from Olav Mol, the Dutch F1 commentator for years and years (also his last race, he's not being taken over by the new channel that got the contract), I hadn't thought the Ziggo team also downded their own Max over everything stance, but well:

[Just_a_fan]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/a-req ... 1626272420

When people like AS are running articles like this, it's time for everybody to take a step back and realise just how serious recent actions are to the sport.

Nah, that's just the biased British media. Everyone knows that.

Edit: and Olav Mol proves my point.

[El Scorchio]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/a-req ... 1626272420

When people like AS are running articles like this, it's time for everybody to take a step back and realise just how serious recent actions are to the sport.

Wow! Strong, impassioned stuff

[Shrieker]

Good to see the cat's out of the mouth, but it remains to be seen if they'll actually put their money where their mouth is, if push comes to shove.

Personally, I think this will make no difference to MV's 'approach' as is evident by their post race statements in Saudia.

[Incognito]

The head 'referee' of one of the largest sports in the world has just felt that he has to issue an official notice to publicly remind competitors not to put the lives of their co-competitors at risk by obviously cheating.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...the current state of F1.

Is there any other top-tier sport that's felt the need to do something like this?

[DChemTech]

I agree to a degree with Olav here. And that is not to say that Max made no mistakes, he made plenty, and he made multiple last race. But this article has the same tone that we often see in discussions: If Max is eliminated by a Hamilton mistake (Silverstone), Max should have gotten out of the way. If Hamilton is eliminated by a Max mistake (Monza), Max was to blame. Hamilton is positioned as being pretty much flawless (although he does make fewer erratic actions than Max, he's not flawless - he manages to be less visible in doing so). And I don't say this to cover Max's mistakes - they are there and should be called out - I wish that sometimes a more critical view was taken towards Lewis, as well as the lobbying tactics of Mercedes and Wolff. Also note that I am by no means a fan of Olav/Ziggo's take - they are way too extreme in their favoritism.

[Phil]

Being docked a few point is not a big issue. So I don't see why it would be a tough thing to do as its the last race of the season. The only hope a driver would have , lets say Max in this instance, is that if he caused Lewis to DNF, he needs to finish in the points so he gets DSQ from that race.

It is, if it has never been done before.

Both cars are out the race, so the guy that commited a professional foul, can't be penalised with a time penalty, they can't be penalised with a grid penalty as its the last race. So all they can do is a point penalty.

I'm willing to bet a lot, that a local steward will only issue penalties exclusive to that event. E.g. You might see a post-race time penalty applied, like in Jeddah, but grid penalties are of course not really relevant. At worst, I can see licence points being a penalty (they carry over).

Seriously, the stewards in Saudi had the best opportunity to issue a clear/cut penalty and they did not. Why would that change?

And assuming they would - who would explain to Max fans that he might lose championship points at the last race and the WDC as a result, when Hamilton did not at Silverstone for something that could be argued could be a similar offense and profitted? It's a can of worms no one will want to open.

[Shrieker]

If Max is eliminated by a Hamilton mistake (Silverstone), Max should have gotten out of the way.

This gets brought up again and again and again by Maxi fans, but it has been analysed and debunked here. If you think solely on the assumption that Hamilton was to blame there, then sure, your point stands.

But as things are, you're basing your opinion on a false premise.

[NathanOlder]

Being docked a few point is not a big issue. So I don't see why it would be a tough thing to do as its the last race of the season. The only hope a driver would have , lets say Max in this instance, is that if he caused Lewis to DNF, he needs to finish in the points so he gets DSQ from that race.

It is, if it has never been done before.

Both cars are out the race, so the guy that commited a professional foul, can't be penalised with a time penalty, they can't be penalised with a grid penalty as its the last race. So all they can do is a point penalty.

I'm willing to bet a lot, that a local steward will only issue penalties exclusive to that event. E.g. You might see a post-race time penalty applied, like in Jeddah, but grid penalties are of course not really relevant. At worst, I can see licence points being a penalty (they carry over).

Seriously, the stewards in Saudi had the best opportunity to issue a clear/cut penalty and they did not. Why would that change?

And assuming they would - who would explain to Max fans that he might lose championship points at the last race and the WDC as a result, when Hamilton did not at Silverstone for something that could be argued could be a similar offense and profitted? It's a can of worms no one will want to open.

Again, Hamilton was penalised in Silverstone and Max was penalised in Saudi. So if Max doesnt finish in Abu Dhabi and is at fault for Lewis not finishing also , then what penalty can they give Max ? the only thing possible is to take points away. Their hand will be forced to do so , if its clear Max was at fault of course.

[djones]

It would not surprise me if Mercedes have a PR team or consultants looking at how they bring public awareness to the issue. It's like prepping the jury before the crime. That AS article is probably sponsored covertly.

And I have no issues with this. It really is just about bringing awareness and trying to prevent something bad from happening before it does.

It's almost one of the only tools Mercedes have right now as no matter where they qualify or what strategy they use, they will at some stage have to deal with at least 1 of the 4 'Redbulls' in the race.

[Incognito]

Well I happen to agree it probably should be djones, but look at what response that got from Olav Mol, the Dutch F1 commentator for years and years (also his last race, he's not being taken over by the new channel that got the contract), I hadn't thought the Ziggo team also downded their own Max over everything stance, but well:

Mol is playing to his audience. No one sane compares a multi-car domino collision to a brake test, but his followers will lap it up.

His mention of Baku is weird though. He's blaming Hamilton for Verstappen's tyre blowout? Why not, I guess. Makes as much sense as his Hungary comparison.

[Just_a_fan]

Well I happen to agree it probably should be djones, but look at what response that got from Olav Mol, the Dutch F1 commentator for years and years (also his last race, he's not being taken over by the new channel that got the contract), I hadn't thought the Ziggo team also downded their own Max over everything stance, but well:

Mol is playing to his audience. No one sane compares a multi-car domino collision to a brake test, but his followers will lap it up.

His mention of Baku is weird though. He's blaming Hamilton for Verstappen's tyre blowout? Why not, I guess. Makes as much sense as his Hungary comparison.

Holland has never had an F1 driver champion and some of them are likely to be quite desperate for that to change, especially someone like Mol who is on his own way out. To commentate on it would be the highlight of his career.

Think back to Walker's commentary of Hill taking the title in '96. He was crying live on air. It means a lot to some of these people because they've been involved in it for a long time.

[DChemTech]

If Max is eliminated by a Hamilton mistake (Silverstone), Max should have gotten out of the way.

This gets brought up again and again and again by Maxi fans, but it has been analysed and debunked here. If you think solely on the assumption that Hamilton was to blame there, then sure, your point stands.

But as things are, you're basing your opinion on a false premise.

I am not going to the debate the content of that incident (again), this is not the place for that. What I am signaling here though is that this analysis, which you seem to present as rational and unbiased, is being argued by someone that I consistently see taking the side of Hamilton in every discussion. Most of the Max fans (sure, not all), that are being extremely critical of Lewis and very lenient with respect to Max, at least acknowledge Max' mistakes - the same does not apply to the reverse. Also note that there is a difference between intent and blame - I am not arguing, and never will, that Lewis deliberately hit Max in Silverstone. That is also quite different when it comes to Lewis' fans arguing about Max.

[Phil]

Again, Hamilton was penalised in Silverstone and Max was penalised in Saudi. So if Max doesnt finish in Abu Dhabi and is at fault for Lewis not finishing also , then what penalty can they give Max ? the only thing possible is to take points away.

They just wont.

And to be fair, i think that is how it should be and yes I’m a Hamilton fan and would wish nothing more than a sufficient punishment if something like that were to happen.

But if you start influencing past races, you are opening yourself to additional scrutiny and giving way for more potential discussion. What is in the past is in the past. You cant and shouldnt change it. What happens at Abu Dhabi should be delt with there. There’s no reason to attribute more importance to incidents at that race because it’s the last race.

Like it or not, Max has that advantage. He earned it. What he does with it, is obviously up to him and of course i hope he will race fairly, but if there was an incident that takes them both out…. Disqualify him from this race, but i dont think he should be deducted points. Either disqualify him from the entire championship due to sporting reasons, but dont go the way of deducting x points. We will never hear the end of it.

In the end, this discussion is a waste, because it will never happen.

First of all, any incident that might happen will not be blatant enough and assuming it is, i dont think anyone will have a guts to disqualify Max from the chanpionship. In fact, i think the sport is longing for a new champion (instead of the Merc/Hamilton) dominance and this narrative will benefit the sport if we like it or not.

[El Scorchio]

It would not surprise me if Mercedes have a PR team or consultants looking at how they bring public awareness to the issue. It's like prepping the jury before the crime. That AS article is probably sponsored covertly.

And I have no issues with this. It really is just about bringing awareness and trying to prevent something bad from happening before it does.

It's almost one of the only tools Mercedes have right now as no matter where they qualify or what strategy they use, they will at some stage have to deal with at least 1 of the 4 'Redbulls' in the race.

I'm not sure they really need to. It's crystal clear from what Masi said that they are on it and will issue a championship altering penalty if they suspect any unsportsmanlike shenanigans, given they know the situation where DNFs for certain drivers or a combination of certain drivers effectively decides things, and given how events have unfolded in Brazil and SA. There's precedent from 1997 to do so when they saw intent, particularly lingering from 1994.

I'm sure they really don't want to do it to anyone as it would be a really ugly way to end such a season, but are hoping it's enough of a deterrent to have everyone race in a sportsmanlike fashion. Because it's even uglier to end the season the other way.