2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[tpe]

Thanks for exhibiting my point

But if you're making the point of bias by other forum users, there is also a pretty clear one running through most of what you post on here too, whether you see it or not, so it seems a bit disingenuous to call other people out for something you are also guilty of but just from an alternative viewpoint.

I don't deny that I have a favorite and that having bias is pretty much an unavoidable result. Bias in itself doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the extent towards which it occurs, in that there appears to be a group of users (and press-representatives) that, by default, blames any incident between Lewis and Max on Max, and in many cases ascribe intent to it. This is not 'giving Lewis the benefit of doubt in unclear cases', it goes further - it goes as far as to basically pose that Lewis is without flaws. An octogod, if you will.
I fully admit that I will give Max the benefit of doubt, but in case there is no doubt, I will accept his role in an incident. As such, I do think that he is predominantly to blame for the incidents at SA, but I do find it troublesome that there is a lot of framing as if it was malice by default. I do think Max could have avoided Silverstone (and might have been the wiser if he did so), but I do not regard him as the one to blame for the unintentional contact there - just as much as I do regard him to be the one to blame for the unintentional contact in Monza.

I am also not denying that there are people in the RB camp that behave as if Max can do no wrong at all. But what I do see is that those are more readily being called out for it that the ones that take a similar position on Hamilton.

Thank you.

[tpe]

17 pages and the majority of them is about how MV will deliberately hit LH, or something like that.
Anyway, I too believe that the last race of the year will be such an anticlimactic borefest.
Honestly, I don't care who will win it, it's so frustrating.

[NathanOlder]

From the BBC:

Abu Dhabi Grand Prix: Max Verstappen says he is treated differently to other drivers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59593834

At this point, he is either trolling, or really, really, really delusional.

It could be either. But surely what it does do is makes the likes of Masi and some of the stewards think "we've given you the benefit of doubt a few times, and this is how you repay us by having a pop at us?!"

[tpe]

Exactly. Especially since he knows that one of them, hmmmm, dislike him.

[Roo]

I am not going to the debate the content of that incident (again), this is not the place for that. What I am signaling here though is that this analysis, which you seem to present as rational and unbiased, is being argued by someone that I consistently see taking the side of Hamilton in every discussion. Most of the Max fans (sure, not all), that are being extremely critical of Lewis and very lenient with respect to Max, at least acknowledge Max' mistakes - the same does not apply to the reverse. Also note that there is a difference between intent and blame - I am not arguing, and never will, that Lewis deliberately hit Max in Silverstone. That is also quite different when it comes to Lewis' fans arguing about Max.

There is a difference; lets start with "I am not arguing, and never will, that Lewis deliberately hit Max in Silverstone" The notion that Lewis hit Max at all is questionable. That isn't debating the incident, it's pointing out bias.

The constant in all these is that MV divebombs, and seems to come from a position that no matter where he starts the dive from the corner is his and even tthe run off areas of the track is his. While those that own the corner arent allowed to own it. SA was MV doing that, and the brake test. I listenned to Billy Monger, it's not even funny to appear to weaponise the car...

LH is not on the level on MV with what he does. MV is embarassing to humanity.

Thanks for exhibiting my point

Not really; MV brake test is pretty much universally condemed. The divebombing and using off circuit areas to defend or attack again is conndemed. He's not about he rules.

LH may push divers wide, he usually owns the corner. Sure he makes mistakes he/Merc doesnt go to social media spout bile or gas light. example MV was at hospital not in hospital; in hospital refers to inpatients not out patients.

Stop with the disengenuos replies it's uncool.

[zubster]

Any discussion about the actual race, rather than the finger pointing and dramatics? anyway be interesting to see how the simulated race pace pans out after FP2. Doesn't this hard compound favour the mercs but with qualifying being key, the softs favour the bulls? Wonder if the merc rear squat can be used again, considering there aern't many high speed corners.

[KeiKo403]

From the BBC:

Abu Dhabi Grand Prix: Max Verstappen says he is treated differently to other drivers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59593834

At this point, he is either trolling, or really, really, really delusional.

It could be either. But surely what it does do is makes the likes of Masi and some of the stewards think "we've given you the benefit of doubt a few times, and this is how you repay us by having a pop at us?!"

I actually think he is treated differently to other racers.
Imagine Grosjean or Mazepin doing moves such as his, they would without doubt be getting penalties.

Unfortunately Verstappen also does have a point with how he intends it to come across too. The stewards have been lenient with him (always) or just turned a blind eye, recently they haven’t for a couple of incidents and now he feels hard done by…he actually hasn’t changed how he’s been racing all year, or since he arrived in F1 for that matter.

As for the €50,000 fine for touching Hamiltons wing it was Red Bull who paid for that so I really don’t know why he goes on about it.

[DChemTech]

There is a difference; lets start with "I am not arguing, and never will, that Lewis deliberately hit Max in Silverstone" The notion that Lewis hit Max at all is questionable. That isn't debating the incident, it's pointing out bias.

The constant in all these is that MV divebombs, and seems to come from a position that no matter where he starts the dive from the corner is his and even tthe run off areas of the track is his. While those that own the corner arent allowed to own it. SA was MV doing that, and the brake test. I listenned to Billy Monger, it's not even funny to appear to weaponise the car...

LH is not on the level on MV with what he does. MV is embarassing to humanity.

Thanks for exhibiting my point

Not really; MV brake test is pretty much universally condemed. The divebombing and using off circuit areas to defend or attack again is conndemed. He's not about he rules.

LH may push divers wide, he usually owns the corner. Sure he makes mistakes he/Merc doesnt go to social media spout bile or gas light. example MV was at hospital not in hospital; in hospital refers to inpatients not out patients.

Stop with the disengenuos replies it's uncool.

I think that the use of the word brake testing is examplary of what I mean. It is indisputable that Max braked, and almost universally condemned that he did so, and did so at that time and place. Rightfully so. However, brake testing frames it as being a indisputable deliberate malicious action, and that is quite something different. I ascribe to the view of Mika Hakkinen that it was a poorly judged moment of frustration, not one of intent. But such a view seems to be close to impossible to bring forward here at times.

Just as much as that RB is condemned for their, sure, aggressive social media behavior, but similar actions by MB are pretty much totally overlooked or even praised (them calling the RB engine illegal mid season, them influecing FIA in very inappropriate ways, continuously playing underdofgg when they are not, acting all hurt when disqualified for technical infringement when other trams have had similar punishments for similar minor infringements, etcetera). So much for calling one disingenuous.

I would very much like to go back to the race thread itself so I will keep it at this.

[codetower]

Sooo... anyone catch the Drivers' press conference? Lando said that he was going to brake test Leclerc in order to secure 5th in the WDC! Unbelievable!!

But seriously (that was was just a joke by Norris)... Ferrari think they'll be strong at this circuit, And McLaren was really strong last year. The battle for 5th is actually going to be pretty close between Lando, Charles and Carlos. This has the makings of a good race from top to bottom.

[KeiKo403]

Can the mods please reopen the SA GP thread. There’s so much discussion about the events of that race in this thread. There are points I’d like to reply on too but (and I get the irony here…) this is wrong race thread for it so I’m desperately trying to restrain myself - kinky

[Alakshendra]

No comments on the part of MV crashing to LH , but i like reading here the technical points provided the people , its a good learning. Yes there is some Bias which i observed over the years towards LH but that is not an issue. Most of forums have that Bias. That was one of reason i got a -2 as favorite mark.

Read somewhere that Merc might be giving another new ICE to Hamilton , makes me wonder on are they setting the engine for top performance and will the penalties again be just 5 places. If that is the case drivers will start taking new engine every other race.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/ted-kravi ... sh-engine/

[Laserguru]

Any discussion about the actual race, rather than the finger pointing and dramatics? anyway be interesting to see how the simulated race pace pans out after FP2. Doesn't this hard compound favour the mercs but with qualifying being key, the softs favour the bulls? Wonder if the merc rear squat can be used again, considering there aern't many high speed corners.

I wonder what this new turn 9 (and 5 to a lesser extent) mean for the front-end limited RB and wonder if they will overheat their tires there.
https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-circuits/ ... na-circuit

[siskue2005]

No comments on the part of MV crashing to LH , but i like reading here the technical points provided the people , its a good learning. Yes there is some Bias which i observed over the years towards LH but that is not an issue. Most of forums have that Bias. That was one of reason i got a -2 as favorite mark.

Read somewhere that Merc might be giving another new ICE to Hamilton , makes me wonder on are they setting the engine for top performance and will the penalties again be just 5 places. If that is the case drivers will start taking new engine every other race.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/ted-kravi ... sh-engine/

So you are blaming the brits for getting a -2 reputation not because of ur poor posts

I don't think merc going to change to change engine... the article above is a suggestion by some one, just an opinion.. not statement from merc

[Laserguru]

At this point, he is either trolling, or really, really, really delusional.

It could be either. But surely what it does do is makes the likes of Masi and some of the stewards think "we've given you the benefit of doubt a few times, and this is how you repay us by having a pop at us?!"

I actually think he is treated differently to other racers.
Imagine Grosjean or Mazepin doing moves such as his, they would without doubt be getting penalties.

Unfortunately Verstappen also does have a point with how he intends it to come across too. The stewards have been lenient with him (always) or just turned a blind eye, recently they haven’t for a couple of incidents and now he feels hard done by…he actually hasn’t changed how he’s been racing all year, or since he arrived in F1 for that matter.

As for the €50,000 fine for touching Hamiltons wing it was Red Bull who paid for that so I really don’t know why he goes on about it.

Comparing Max to Mazepin and Grosjean makes me smile. Remember Grosjean applying full throttle in Spa believing he could spin back on the track? The driver who is personally responsible for the diver license penalty point system? I have words for Mazepin. Maybe you truly believe Max is a same kind of driver. You know you prove him right?

[Baulz]

17 pages and the majority of them is about how MV will deliberately hit LH, or something like that.
Anyway, I too believe that the last race of the year will be such an anticlimactic borefest.
Honestly, I don't care who will win it, it's so frustrating.

Could the mods make a separate race thread work? One for Lewis vs. Max and the other to discuss the other 18 drivers in the race?

I would like to see McLaren have one more great race to end the year and finish closer to Ferrari in 3rd. Which team will the revised track favour?