2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Tom145145]

If what was required was a “show” then the perfectly legal option of restarting without the lapped cars passing the SC would have been much better. An initial scramble as Verstappen passed the lapped cars followed by most, if not all of the lap with the two best drivers absolutely flat out. As it was we got a simple pass early in the lap and a bit of a cruise thereafter. There would have been few complaints, aside from the obvious lap1 incident, and for whoever won the SC period would simply be a bit of luck, good or bad.

It would have been both by the book and a race to the flag. Lewis on old tyres and Max having to pass back markers, it would have been more of a spectacle than an easy pass literally anywhere on track such was the tyre advantage.
Trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, I think Masi just crumbled under the pressure and thought this was a compromise. I honestly think he thought Hamilton wasn’t a sitting duck, which goes to show he has about a much knowledge of “car racing” as a casual fan. He hasn’t got the composure under pressure, makes questionable decisions and thinks the last lap was a race…he just needs to go.

[dans79]

Did we end up with a “most optimal” solution? I can say hand on heart, no. Any time pressured decision has a non optimal element. They’re having comms and input from lots of different channels, trying to get to a good solution. They are human….

That's why Massi needs to be removed, he's not strong enough, or experienced enough.

If it had been me, the people trying to influence my actions via the radio would have gotten a very direct but still polite version of sit down and STFU.

[Ryar]

If what was required was a “show” then the perfectly legal option of restarting without the lapped cars passing the SC would have been much better. An initial scramble as Verstappen passed the lapped cars followed by most, if not all of the lap with the two best drivers absolutely flat out. As it was we got a simple pass early in the lap and a bit of a cruise thereafter. There would have been few complaints, aside from the obvious lap1 incident, and for whoever won the SC period would simply be a bit of luck, good or bad.

All things considered that would have been the fairest way to restart the race but then masi had Redbull in his ear about letting the cars in lap themselves. It seems masi is too influenced in his decisions by what the team principles want, just look at Toto begging for the safety car not to come out earlier in the race

Why should a race director not try and implement restart procedures? How would leaving the lapped cars in between the leading cars in a SC car period makes for the correct restart procedure? That doesn't make sense.

[jumpingfish]

Guys while you are sitting in chairs and still fighting with keyboards about Mazi, judgement, fair/unfair, Toto Wolff celebrates

[Tom145145]

If what was required was a “show” then the perfectly legal option of restarting without the lapped cars passing the SC would have been much better. An initial scramble as Verstappen passed the lapped cars followed by most, if not all of the lap with the two best drivers absolutely flat out. As it was we got a simple pass early in the lap and a bit of a cruise thereafter. There would have been few complaints, aside from the obvious lap1 incident, and for whoever won the SC period would simply be a bit of luck, good or bad.

All things considered that would have been the fairest way to restart the race but then masi had Redbull in his ear about letting the cars in lap themselves. It seems masi is too influenced in his decisions by what the team principles want, just look at Toto begging for the safety car not to come out earlier in the race

Why should a race director not try and implement restart procedures? How would leaving the lapped cars in between the leading cars in a SC car period makes for the correct restart procedure? That doesn't make sense.

It would be correct to leave the lapped cars because it’s written in the rules. You seem to want to have both sides of this argument.

[etusch]

[Tom145145]

Guys while you are sitting in chairs and still fighting with keyboards about Mazi, judgement, fair/unfair, Toto Wolff celebrates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4tjgHvYEDQ

[Ryar]

All things considered that would have been the fairest way to restart the race but then masi had Redbull in his ear about letting the cars in lap themselves. It seems masi is too influenced in his decisions by what the team principles want, just look at Toto begging for the safety car not to come out earlier in the race

Why should a race director not try and implement restart procedures? How would leaving the lapped cars in between the leading cars in a SC car period makes for the correct restart procedure? That doesn't make sense.

It would be correct to leave the lapped car because it’s written in the rules. You seem to want to have both sides of this argument.

Sorry which rules are those? I have no idea. I only know the rules where lapped cars have to unlap before the SC restart. Infact IMO, they should change that ruling and instruct the leading cars to overtake lapped cars, instead of allowing lapped cars to unlap.

[Tom145145]

Why should a race director not try and implement restart procedures? How would leaving the lapped cars in between the leading cars in a SC car period makes for the correct restart procedure? That doesn't make sense.

It would be correct to leave the lapped car because it’s written in the rules. You seem to want to have both sides of this argument.

Sorry which rules are those? I have no idea. I only know the rules where lapped cars have to unlap before the SC restart. Infact IMO, they should change that ruling and instruct the leading cars to overtake lapped cars, instead of allowing lapped cars to unlap.

It’s referenced in this thread from the sporting code I believe.

[dans79]

If what was required was a “show” then the perfectly legal option of restarting without the lapped cars passing the SC would have been much better. An initial scramble as Verstappen passed the lapped cars followed by most, if not all of the lap with the two best drivers absolutely flat out. As it was we got a simple pass early in the lap and a bit of a cruise thereafter. There would have been few complaints, aside from the obvious lap1 incident, and for whoever won the SC period would simply be a bit of luck, good or bad.

All things considered that would have been the fairest way to restart the race but then masi had Redbull in his ear about letting the cars in lap themselves. It seems masi is too influenced in his decisions by what the team principles want, just look at Toto begging for the safety car not to come out earlier in the race

Why should a race director not try and implement restart procedures? How would leaving the lapped cars in between the leading cars in a SC car period makes for the correct restart procedure? That doesn't make sense.

It's in the regulations as an option, and and in many series over the last several decades it's how it's been done.

What we have now in F1 and in other series is just an artificial situation to keep young fans engaged.

It's a well known fact that younger people don't care nearly as much about cars as previous generations, So to keep them engaged and shelling out money, garbage like this has been contrived.

[SuperCNJ]

You are right, max didn’t win because he was lucky, he won because of race manipulation by the officials who should be impartial.

Max won because yesterday he was lucky. He almost lost because Masi was too hesitant about letting lapped cars unlap. That's the main point.

What is the obsession with luck, luck had nothing to do with it. When you get a gift it’s not luck, he was gifted the lap and the removal of that lapped cars. Why were the other cars not allowed to unlap?

Agreed. Intentional or not, allowing some lapped cars to unlap themselves but not others is clearly not right or fair. I personally can't recall when this has happened before. I just think they made the wrong call. I don't think anyone would have complained if they had allowed all lapped cars to unlap themselves as this is the norm. Even if it means they follow the safety car to the end, it would have been fair and not seem fabricated. Yes RB wouldn't have been happy if they lost that way, of course, but I suspect there wouldn't have been any grounds to feel robbed by the race officials.

Max is a worthy champion and RB has done a great job this year but winning the race through the race officials' balls-up and not purely on merit alone does leave a really sour taste.

[El Scorchio]

Throw all procedures out?
There's so much hysterics here.
A few have actually thought reasonably about how it was a difficult situation for the officials.
It's totally expected, normal, proper motor racing to restart if the track is clear.
Lapped cars were moved out of the way, as they always are, but this was decided last moment so it would be cutting it too close to let everyone through.
The officials were probably in a near panic trying to make sure they made the best call they could, and it took them time.
If they made a quick bad decision, you'd be complaining about that instead.
This hysterics about article 4.854.48843.6 not being exactly like the officials decision is an extremely rigid, autistic meltdown type of reaction to a completely reasonable decision made in the spirit of the rules.

Why do you care so much? If they put all lapped cars ahead earlier like they could have, yes that would have been more fair to Vettel etc, of course it wasn't perfect, but these are humans making decisions and the outcome would have been the same if they did it right.

Let's be clear. The track was cleared fast enough to warrant:
1) a restart
2) lapped cars going ahead

The outcome would have been the same if they made a more correct quicker decision! So stop foaming at the mouth because your favorite driver lost for once.

Think I'm too biased? I think Max should have been disqualified in Jeddah.

Your being selective with your judgment there. The other option was to leave the cars where they were. I mean that was their first call before they changed that notion. Chance played the cards that way due to the crash and they should have left as that, with max stopping and having the lapped cars between himself and Hamilton. It was them trying their luck and rightly with nothing to lose they did. The argument is, for many, by removing the cars in between it left nothing to the original chance that was created but instead manipulated to have a race off between the two title contenders, knowing the outcome was inevitable

So you’re arguing they should have not used the rulebook and not let lapped drivers past just because it suits the outcome you want….

The point is that they weighed up what on balance the best way was to finish that race.

I would have understood if they finished behind the SC. I would have understood if they didn’t let any lap cars through. And I understand what they arrived at too (although I wished they immediately let lapped cars through). Whichever decision was made, someone would have felt robbed. The intention of the rules is to race in a safe manner. They are not and never have been black and white in all their details. They’re to be followed as much as possible but also varied if a situation demands it or can be justified.

Did we end up with a “most optimal” solution? I can say hand on heart, no. Any time pressured decision has a non optimal element. They’re having comms and input from lots of different channels, trying to get to a good solution. They are human….

Actually it's within the rulebook to not let lapped cars pass. It's also in the rulebook to let all lapped cars pass. It's not in the rulebook to selectively let lapped cars pass to greatly advantage only one driver over several of the rest of them.

[Ryar]

All things considered that would have been the fairest way to restart the race but then masi had Redbull in his ear about letting the cars in lap themselves. It seems masi is too influenced in his decisions by what the team principles want, just look at Toto begging for the safety car not to come out earlier in the race

Why should a race director not try and implement restart procedures? How would leaving the lapped cars in between the leading cars in a SC car period makes for the correct restart procedure? That doesn't make sense.

It's in the regulations as an option, and and in many series over the last several decades it's how it's been done.

What we have now in F1 and in other series is just an artificial situation to keep young fans engaged.

It's a well known fact that younger people don't care nearly as much about cars as previous generations, So to keep them engaged and shelling out money, garbage like this has been contrived.

Exercising Race Director's discretion is also available in the regulations, which Masi did. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't work. He and his team of stewards were under immense pressure and took a decision that seemed right, not to mention the unwanted pressure from the team principals. I wish there were robots sitting making data based decision, but it's not and it is what it is.

[Just Passing By]

This will heavily tarnish Hamilton´s career forever

Not only he had a confortably faster car ( even on places like Monaco, where he was simply pathetic) for most of the season, but he had some huge luck on Baku, some favourable stewarding decicisons backing him up as the darling of the series (like in Imola when he was not punished for running off the track way too much), and the worst part was the dirty driving on Silverstone and Hungary(Silverstone will mark Hamilton´s career forever).

This is simply, without a doubt, the most humiliating and embarassing defeat in the history of the series. I can´t even remember anybody else losing while having the best car, massively luck and cheating all coming together.

But if this year was already brutal for LH fans, next year is gonna be something else because people will have no car excuse BS against Georgie boy

I'm a Ferrari fan. I'm not a Hamilton fan. But Jos Ferstappen himself would be ashamed of such a post.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Your being selective with your judgment there. The other option was to leave the cars where they were. I mean that was their first call before they changed that notion. Chance played the cards that way due to the crash and they should have left as that, with max stopping and having the lapped cars between himself and Hamilton. It was them trying their luck and rightly with nothing to lose they did. The argument is, for many, by removing the cars in between it left nothing to the original chance that was created but instead manipulated to have a race off between the two title contenders, knowing the outcome was inevitable

So you’re arguing they should have not used the rulebook and not let lapped drivers past just because it suits the outcome you want….

The point is that they weighed up what on balance the best way was to finish that race.

I would have understood if they finished behind the SC. I would have understood if they didn’t let any lap cars through. And I understand what they arrived at too (although I wished they immediately let lapped cars through). Whichever decision was made, someone would have felt robbed. The intention of the rules is to race in a safe manner. They are not and never have been black and white in all their details. They’re to be followed as much as possible but also varied if a situation demands it or can be justified.

Did we end up with a “most optimal” solution? I can say hand on heart, no. Any time pressured decision has a non optimal element. They’re having comms and input from lots of different channels, trying to get to a good solution. They are human….

Actually it's within the rulebook to not let lapped cars pass. It's also in the rulebook to let all lapped cars pass. It's not in the rulebook to selectively let lapped cars pass to greatly advantage only one driver over several of the rest of them.

Doesn’t mean that those rules at any point can’t be varied based on circumstances. No rule set covers all scenarios. The stewards base their penalties on a rule set and vary them ALL the time. And we have members here screaming that “how can this be”, whenever their stallion gets disadvantaged.

Everyone here that literally just tries to see this black and white is simple delusional. In a perfect world, sure. Not in the world we live in however. Who needs a race director if all decisions are black and white? Only need a computer then…

Race director and stewards discretion has been with us and is allowed/applied virtually at every race. It’s why they’re there. To suggest it was done to fix the result is laughable. Sorry