2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[DrDejan]

No they wont leave the sport.
Neither will Lewis.

They will race again. But i suspect Something has to work out in the courts for Hamilton and the team for being robbed.

This is why it needs to go to CAS,unless it is being delt with beind the scenes Ferrari style.

maybe, but FIA makes F1 rules , and they will not care if those rules hit Merc badly, it wouldn't be first time in F1 history, so everything will calm down next week , Wolf and Hamilton already congratulated Max, so...

I don’t know about others, but I’d like to know what happened this season, including the final race. Not because I’m looking for Mercedes, Lewis, Max, Red Bull, or others to get a decision in their favor. I’m a paying customer who expect to see advanced sport competition. I’m not paying to watch rigged football tournaments, or engineered entertainment as Nascar, and I won’t pay for such even if it’s called Formula 1.

[f1jcw]

maybe, but FIA makes F1 rules , and they will not care if those rules hit Merc badly, it wouldn't be first time in F1 history, so everything will calm down next week , Wolf and Hamilton already congratulated Max, so...

Thats the point though, the rules didn't hit Merc bady, ignoring the rules hit Merc badly.

Do you not have concerns that the race control can disregard their own set out rules and decide who should win.
At that point it stops being a competition.

you all take this too much to your heart, it will not be overuled in my opinion

too much to heart? strange comment.

It doesn't bother me on a day to day basis, but I do not want cheating out of a year long contest on the whim of a race controller who decided to disregard his own set rules.

Not sure why you think that should be disregarded unless you are a person that is more in favour of Lewis being betten illegally instead of on the track.

[radosav]

This is why it needs to go to CAS,unless it is being delt with beind the scenes Ferrari style.

maybe, but FIA makes F1 rules , and they will not care if those rules hit Merc badly, it wouldn't be first time in F1 history, so everything will calm down next week , Wolf and Hamilton already congratulated Max, so...

I don’t know about others, but I’d like to know what happened this season, including the final race. Not because I’m looking for Mercedes, Lewis, Max, Red Bull, or others to get a decision in their favor. I’m a paying customer who expect to see advanced sport competition. I’m not paying to watch rigged football tournaments, or engineered entertainment as Nascar, and I won’t pay for such even if it’s called Formula 1.

was it rigged agains't Red Bull when they didn't allow lapped drivers to unlap themselves when SC was deployed, although protocol was to unlap those cars from the beginning of SC?
you have video of Alonso making fun of that decision during the race, mocking it like it was to protect Merc

[etusch]

They didn't put ham to p 3d and vers to 1st. They just pull out of the way the cars not in fight. You can think that they are blue flagged under sc. Ham was at front and he has chance to fight. If he has disadvantage with tyres, that was genious bono or toto.

In the other hand somehow ham was able to drive as fast as max with so much old tyres. Somehow he could fight withe Redbull when they are on new softs.
There are too many strange things. How so much old tyres can go as fast as a car which is your main rival and had a faster car at least half of season? its not normal and it is not being polite on tyres.
why you don't talk about first lap? It has zero resamblence with brasil.
Some people just see fia unfair when fia's/steward's decision against them and see them quite fair otherwise by not looking what happened. When you are looking things in that way how you can try to convince us unfairness of the decision. If it is good for me it is right. this should be ok with your logic.

To summarise:
1 - The FIA should've punished Hamilton for going off track to avoid a crash when Verstappen tried the divebomb of divebombs and didn't leave any space on track;
2 - The FIA did right by completely bending the rules to allow Verstappen to have an easy win on the last lap;
3 - Hamilton's car shouldn't have been able to fight Max at the last lap as much as he did on old hard tyres, which means they're probably cheating.

When I completely ignore reality your arguments almost make sense.

It looks like you don't have any argument knowledge. what you had said just makes you loser.

[ringo]

Max has been on the podium every race in which he did not retire (by own means or due to actions out of his control) with the exception of the one race where he was hit by another driver but could continue in half a car (Hungary). The gap between Max and his teammate was larger than between Lewis and his teammate - which hints at Max being able to extract relatively more from his car (or at Bottas being a much better driver than Checo?). Max has been able to extract stellar pole-gaining or pole-worthy laps in the last races, while being in a much worse car in these last races (which is why Max and Checo were 'destroyed' in recent races - but a championship is not awarded for performance in the last race only). Both drivers excelled this season, but all in all Max managed to excel just a bit more. He had higher highs. But admittedly, lower lows, too.

I dont think he had many stand out drives this year or as many as Lewis. We can list them, but he hasnt really driven any amazing races. I think he performed as expected from the car's earlier dominant pace, but no amazing racing to rememeber.
COTA was maybe his best drive to me.
France second.

Hamilton did more amazing things in his car this year and i think reminded most fans that his racing tool set is more complete.


As for the stats. 10 wins is more like 8. Spa was not driven and was gifted. And abudhabi was also gifted. These 2 had nothing to do with luck. Just pure regulator interference.

For races driven, even including luck. It's more like 9 to 8 in Hamilton's favour.

According to your logic, Silverstone is then also gifted to Hamilton?

No. why do you max fans keeping saying this?

Max took himself out and Hamilton still got penalized with the rule book with the appropriate punishment for a collision. This was all on track. Nothing the FIA did here was customized by Masi or manipulated. It was in facted heavy handed but within the regs. It was a first lap incident and should not have even been worthy of a penalty. It was actually Masi going the other way and favouring redbull again by punishing hamilton because of pressure.
So no. Not the same. Hamilton was not gifted here. He outraced Max and maxed banged wheels and weaved liked he usually does and took himself out. Hamilton then drove and raced leclerc for the win even with a penalty. It was racing with the book thrown at him.

Doesnt change the fact that max got gifted from the race director himself by manipulation.
These are facts.
No rules were twisted for any incident involving Lewis and him benefiting this year.

Max even had 2 incidences that were punishable by black flag and race ban and masi turned a blind eye. Brasil and Saudi.

So it goes back to what i was saying. Max only drove to 8 wins this year. Lewis raced to 9.

[f1jcw]

maybe, but FIA makes F1 rules , and they will not care if those rules hit Merc badly, it wouldn't be first time in F1 history, so everything will calm down next week , Wolf and Hamilton already congratulated Max, so...

I don’t know about others, but I’d like to know what happened this season, including the final race. Not because I’m looking for Mercedes, Lewis, Max, Red Bull, or others to get a decision in their favor. I’m a paying customer who expect to see advanced sport competition. I’m not paying to watch rigged football tournaments, or engineered entertainment as Nascar, and I won’t pay for such even if it’s called Formula 1.

was it rigged agains't Red Bull when they didn't allow lapped drivers to unlap themselves when SC was deployed, although protocol was to unlap those cars from the beginning of SC?
you have video of Alonso making fun of that decision during the race, mocking it like it was to protect Merc

You do understand there is two options to race control, allow all lapped cars past, or allow none past.

THIS IS IN THE RULES.

It is not rigging or making the rules up.


What is wrong with you people that you can not grasp these very simple basic facts. I mean you might not like Lewis
and want Max to win but posting something so plainly absurd doesn't help.

[f1jcw]

They didn't put ham to p 3d and vers to 1st. They just pull out of the way the cars not in fight. You can think that they are blue flagged under sc. Ham was at front and he has chance to fight. If he has disadvantage with tyres, that was genious bono or toto.

In the other hand somehow ham was able to drive as fast as max with so much old tyres. Somehow he could fight withe Redbull when they are on new softs.
There are too many strange things. How so much old tyres can go as fast as a car which is your main rival and had a faster car at least half of season? its not normal and it is not being polite on tyres.
why you don't talk about first lap? It has zero resamblence with brasil.
Some people just see fia unfair when fia's/steward's decision against them and see them quite fair otherwise by not looking what happened. When you are looking things in that way how you can try to convince us unfairness of the decision. If it is good for me it is right. this should be ok with your logic.

To summarise:
1 - The FIA should've punished Hamilton for going off track to avoid a crash when Verstappen tried the divebomb of divebombs and didn't leave any space on track;
2 - The FIA did right by completely bending the rules to allow Verstappen to have an easy win on the last lap;
3 - Hamilton's car shouldn't have been able to fight Max at the last lap as much as he did on old hard tyres, which means they're probably cheating.

When I completely ignore reality your arguments almost make sense.

It looks like you don't have any argument knowledge. what you had said just makes you loser.

and yet, you posted tinfoil hat stuff like this

There are too many strange things. How so much old tyres can go as fast as a car which is your main rival and had a faster car at least half of season? its not normal and it is not being polite on tyres.

[Big Tea]

Thats the thing. The rules can be anything at aslong as they understood, followed and allow the teams to build a strategy around.

If rules are made on the fly none of the above can happen.

The game maker on Hunger Games approach

Nightlock ?

I mean Masi needs to go but that might be going too far

My immediate thoughts were he has to go, but on consideration we don't know what he is being told by his 'bosses'.
I think apart from die hard Lewis fans no one really thinks he is 'Bent' and deliberately giving the championship to Max, but he did not work in a transparent manor nor to make decisions the teams would reasonably expect. (even Red Bull despite what they might say on air).

A few times this year he seems to have come to a decision then without any explanation ( which he does not have to give openly ) he has changed it. The decision of one race has been different the next time it is considered. Now He is no fool, so either he is making the first decision without all the information, or the second one after being told to take 'something else' into consideration too. (Outside interference???? a call for his 'boss'?)

Also, there is no way he should be having to argue wit the team while coming to this decision. Maybe let them message him or give him an aid. Brundle reminded us in his vid that even Charlie had Joe Bawer helping him (see vid)

I have reconsidered my 'heat of the moment' opinion as I really dont know enough about the guy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWPg3dXOAks

[nevill3]

was it rigged agains't Red Bull when they didn't allow lapped drivers to unlap themselves when SC was deployed, although protocol was to unlap those cars from the beginning of SC?
you have video of Alonso making fun of that decision during the race, mocking it like it was to protect Merc

The rules do not state that the cars should unlap themselves at the start of a safety car, they are only allowed to do so when the race director is sure that the safety of the marshals and everybody else is assured because an incident is cleared away and the track is safe to race once more. When the track is deemed safe the lapped cars are instructed to unlap themselves by passing the lead car and safety car where they are then permitted to quickly, but not dangerously, drive to join the back of the field, they are not permitted to overtake one another.

The poor interpretation of the rules being argued here makes me think Masi is posting

[diffuser]

You could also just say no unlapping after 70% of the race. But I'm ok with standing start. It would have to be a percentage cause of varying number of laps at different tracks.

They could add as many rules as they want, if the race director can do whatever on the fly I doesn’t make a difference. The rules as they stand would have been fair.

Thats the thing. The rules can be anything at aslong as they understood, followed and allow the teams to build a strategy around.

If rules are made on the fly none of the above can happen.

From what The Stewarts said, Masi was within his Mandate. He was out of his mind but whithin his mandate.

[ringo]

Also a keen watcher would notice the marshalls were given the hurry up to pin up that armco.
Something was really off. The track wasnt even fully cleared and the barrier also was not repaired for safety. It stinks.

But onto the race. As what cannot be erased is the stain of this title year. It will never go away. Sad for Max that his title is stained, but he can blame his team principal and Masi for that. I think outside of Lewis haters and dutch fans everyone knows that a robbery tool place.

Saiz snatch P5 from lando in the championship.
I think it was well deserved because mclaren just ran out of steam in the last 5 races. It's really difficult to understand.
He beat leclerc as well. Leclerc who is supposed to be ferrari's #1 wonderboy got beat by the new comer! Sainz beat him on clinical driving and race management.
So i am expecting a heated battle next year between these two.
I dont know if this result was also a part of the Masi mess as i was not watching the ferraris. But Leclerc may have made too many errors this year.
Norris just lost all steam and Riciardo started to look like he was on par with him.

[radosav]

I don’t know about others, but I’d like to know what happened this season, including the final race. Not because I’m looking for Mercedes, Lewis, Max, Red Bull, or others to get a decision in their favor. I’m a paying customer who expect to see advanced sport competition. I’m not paying to watch rigged football tournaments, or engineered entertainment as Nascar, and I won’t pay for such even if it’s called Formula 1.

was it rigged agains't Red Bull when they didn't allow lapped drivers to unlap themselves when SC was deployed, although protocol was to unlap those cars from the beginning of SC?
you have video of Alonso making fun of that decision during the race, mocking it like it was to protect Merc

You do understand there is two options to race control, allow all lapped cars past, or allow none past.

THIS IS IN THE RULES.

It is not rigging or making the rules up.


What is wrong with you people that you can not grasp these very simple basic facts. I mean you might not like Lewis
and want Max to win but posting something so plainly absurd doesn't help.

it is your inerpretation of the rules, but FIA has other interpretation, you are grasping yourselves on your interpretation of the rules, i know it isn't easy to accept this, i as alonso fan know this very well, "mclaren favoring lewis in 2007, fia favoring vettel and their flexi wings in 2010, stupid kimi and grosjean hiting alonso in 2012...", my message to you : try to get over it soon, if you can, next year lewis will probably have huge chance of winning his eight title

[ringo]

They could add as many rules as they want, if the race director can do whatever on the fly I doesn’t make a difference. The rules as they stand would have been fair.

Thats the thing. The rules can be anything at aslong as they understood, followed and allow the teams to build a strategy around.

If rules are made on the fly none of the above can happen.

From what The Stewarts said, Masi was within his Mandate. He was out of his mind but whithin his mandate.

To manipulate and abuse power? Such things can be classed as such. A race director can red flag a race anytime. But what if he does it to force a result in competiton?

[Big Tea]

They could add as many rules as they want, if the race director can do whatever on the fly I doesn’t make a difference. The rules as they stand would have been fair.

Thats the thing. The rules can be anything at aslong as they understood, followed and allow the teams to build a strategy around.

If rules are made on the fly none of the above can happen.

From what The Stewarts said, Masi was within his Mandate. He was out of his mind but whithin his mandate.

I assume that is within his mandate as long as he can show he though it was required to over ride written rules and 'custom and practice'? I know nothing is going to change and Merc will quietly let things go, but as with any judge a decision has to be transparent and obvious if possible, or explained.

In UK law (and many others) if a judge thinks there are things affecting his decision that are not obvious to the layman he gives what is called an 'obiter dictum' to give his reasoning. Anyone over riding written rules should do something similar for the sake of clarity even if not mandatory.

[Tizz]

Like changing the rules on the floor to specifically target the low-rake cars?

It's funny you say that. The first indications were that it would hurt the high rake cars most.
You could argue that they specifically targeted high rake cars but failed.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/low- ... s/5923745/