2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Schuttelberg]

The reason Hamilton was even in the title fight at Abu Dhabi was because he took Verstappen out in UK, Bottas took Verstappen out in Hungary and Pirelli at Baku.

But surely Verstappen was only still in the fight too because he stopped Lewis outscoring him at Monza along with the FIA not penalizing him in Brazil for the very poor T4 defending and then also Masi allowing him to move places during a red flag instead of taking a real penalty and then later that race the blatant brake checking which also went unpunished.

I'm willing to accept some give and take for the both of them over the course of the season up until Abu Dhabi.

Masi broke the rules handing the win and the Championship to Max. That's why some [maybe most] see an * next to the '21 WDC.

Verstappen did not do anything wrong in Monza. I think you will see a more uncompromising Hamilton this year when he's in combat with Verstappen. It was a pretty poor penalty. I think he certainly deserved a 5-10 second penalty in Brazil but that would have not lost him points either. And if you want to talk about benefits from a red flag, then Lewis would have not scored in Imola.

The crux of the discussion should be the mistakes the steward made at Abu Dhabi. Not who deserved the WDC because Max deserved the title 100% and it is disrespectful as hell to be saying that he did not or putting funny symbols alongside. It is someone's life's work.

[dans79]

Verstappen did not do anything wrong in Monza.

The stewards (and myself) disagree with you, hence the reason he got a penalty, even if it was a weak one!

[ringo]

The reason Hamilton was even in the title fight at Abu Dhabi was because he took Verstappen out in UK, Bottas took Verstappen out in Hungary and Pirelli at Baku.

But surely Verstappen was only still in the fight too because he stopped Lewis outscoring him at Monza along with the FIA not penalizing him in Brazil for the very poor T4 defending and then also Masi allowing him to move places during a red flag instead of taking a real penalty and then later that race the blatant brake checking which also went unpunished.

I'm willing to accept some give and take for the both of them over the course of the season up until Abu Dhabi.

Masi broke the rules handing the win and the Championship to Max. That's why some [maybe most] see an * next to the '21 WDC.

Verstappen did not do anything wrong in Monza. I think you will see a more uncompromising Hamilton this year when he's in combat with Verstappen. It was a pretty poor penalty. I think he certainly deserved a 5-10 second penalty in Brazil but that would have not lost him points either. And if you want to talk about benefits from a red flag, then Lewis would have not scored in Imola.

The crux of the discussion should be the mistakes the steward made at Abu Dhabi. Not who deserved the WDC because Max deserved the title 100% and it is disrespectful as hell to be saying that he did not or putting funny symbols alongside. It is someone's life's work.

You are overreacting. No one "deserves" a world championship. That is emotional entitlement.
A driver earns it. If the means by which it was obtained was in the very moment the sporting event lost its integrity affording the opportunity for a manipulated result; then I do not see why you have a problem with people recognizing what happened objectively. No hard feelings, it just is what it is.

The fact of the matter is Masi's actions handed Max the championship. You cannot change that. That is written in history and will be written as such in F1's hall of fame.

It was Deus ex Machina basically. And the world has recognized that. Both drivers were equal on points up to the last race. One had gifted points from Spa which means under racing conditions, Hamilton earned more points over the whole season up to that point. You simply cannot say Max deserved anything and people are being disrespectful. No has has said Hamilton deserved to be champion even though he was equal on points.
They just know that up to the Deus ex Machina moment, Hamilton was on his way to win it.


Also Hamilton will not be more uncompromising. Normal and proper Race Directing and stewarding will bring the sport back to proper racing and craft, and Max will be more sensible. Hamilton can drive the same way he drove in the last four races. All that needs to be changed was Masi and that was done.

[Aesop]

The fact of the matter is Masi's actions handed Max the championship. You cannot change that. That is written in history and will be written as such in F1's hall of fame.

Fact of the matter was that Masi almost handed the title to Lewis. He could have let the lapped cars pass much earlier. He didn't, partly because he had to answer all the calls from both Wolf an Horner I guess.
He then used his authority to make a creative call to right his wrong. Within the rules, but creative I give you that.

And the world rejoiced...(mostly, except for the UK and the UK based press).

Don't worry, Lewis will win his 8th title this year. No doubt the W13 will be as dominant as the W12 after the summerbreak and no doubt the UKbased press will label it the greatest comeback ever witnessed.

That's what we call a win-winsituation!

[bonjon1979]

The fact of the matter is Masi's actions handed Max the championship. You cannot change that. That is written in history and will be written as such in F1's hall of fame.

Come on, Hamilton was 14 seconds up the road, it was in his hands. Masi was desperate to get the Marshalls off the track so he could get the cars through. It wasn’t even safe when he gave the order. Then he broke two clear rules to hand it to max. It’ll always be a sham championship

Fact of the matter was that Masi almost handed the title to Lewis. He could have let the lapped cars pass much earlier. He didn't, partly because he had to answer all the calls from both Wolf an Horner I guess.
He then used his authority to make a creative call to right his wrong. Within the rules, but creative I give you that.

And the world rejoiced...(mostly, except for the UK and the UK based press).

Don't worry, Lewis will win his 8th title this year. No doubt the W13 will be as dominant as the W12 after the summerbreak and no doubt the UKbased press will label it the greatest comeback ever witnessed.

That's what we call a win-winsituation!

[Starscreamer]

The fact of the matter is Masi's actions handed Max the championship. You cannot change that. That is written in history and will be written as such in F1's hall of fame.

Fact of the matter was that Masi almost handed the title to Lewis. He could have let the lapped cars pass much earlier. He didn't, partly because he had to answer all the calls from both Wolf an Horner I guess.
He then used his authority to make a creative call to right his wrong. Within the rules, but creative I give you that.

And the world rejoiced...(mostly, except for the UK and the UK based press).

Don't worry, Lewis will win his 8th title this year. No doubt the W13 will be as dominant as the W12 after the summerbreak and no doubt the UKbased press will label it the greatest comeback ever witnessed.

That's what we call a win-winsituation!

I hope this season W13 & even Red Bull will do less better then other teams.
This year I hope more then 2 teams can fight for the championship

[wogx]

Lewis lost that championship in Baku already. That "brake magic" mistake was a huuuge one. If he won there, then Max couldn't win WDC in Abu Dhabi.

[ringo]

You cannot look on things in retrospect and assume all else stays the same with that one change.
Many things could have happened over a season under normal and natural racing conditions.
Maybe it never rains in Belgium also and Max diddnt have a slow stop in Monza?
Makes no sense cherry pick normal events under racing conditions.
What we do know is the RD lost his job for manipulating a race result.
And no i do not think Max would have won that race at all without the intervention.
He would have not cleared all the cars or.. if they were allowed to overtake the SC would have had to go around 1 more time and the race would end.
That's why Masi lost his job.
But the report will be out almost a month from now on March 18.
Max is champion and that wont change, but people should not be called disrespectful because they see the obvious. They see the same thing the FIA and teams saw that resulted in Masi losing his job.
Redbull lobbied their way to their championship.
2022 should be a breath of fresh air without the weird calls by the stewards that seem to help redbull most of the time.

[mrluke]

He then used his authority to make a creative call to right his wrong. Within the rules, but creative I give you that.

It wasn't within the rules. That's why its never happened before.

If it was Masi would still be the RD.

[Wouter]

What we do know is the RD lost his job for manipulating a race result.

.
Is that so? Where can I read that or is it your own assumption/conclusion?

2022 should be a breath of fresh air without the weird calls by the stewards that seem to help redbull most of the time.

Really? Btw, the stewards will remain the same.

[NicoS]

What we do know is the RD lost his job for manipulating a race result.

.
Is that so? Where can I read that or is it your own assumption/conclusion?

2022 should be a breath of fresh air without the weird calls by the stewards that seem to help redbull most of the time.

Really? Btw, the stewards will remain the same.

SC and VSC has always manipulated a race, only way to "neutralize" and not manipulate is to lock pitlane.
Changing the man will not change anything, it will still be a lottery that artificially impacts the race.
You are only sour because it did not work in your drivers favour this time, I have felt exactly the same many times before.

[Wouter]

What we do know is the RD lost his job for manipulating a race result.

.
Is that so? Where can I read that or is it your own assumption/conclusion?

2022 should be a breath of fresh air without the weird calls by the stewards that seem to help redbull most of the time.

Really? Btw, the stewards will remain the same.

.
SC and VSC has always manipulated a race, only way to "neutralize" and not manipulate is to lock pitlane.
Changing the man will not change anything, it will still be a lottery that artificially impacts the race.
You are only sour because it did not work in your drivers favour this time, I have felt exactly the same many times before.

.
Huh, are talking to me?

[NicoS]

.
Is that so? Where can I read that or is it your own assumption/conclusion?




Really? Btw, the stewards will remain the same.

.
SC and VSC has always manipulated a race, only way to "neutralize" and not manipulate is to lock pitlane.
Changing the man will not change anything, it will still be a lottery that artificially impacts the race.
You are only sour because it did not work in your drivers favour this time, I have felt exactly the same many times before.

.
Huh, are talking to me?

Replying to Ringo.
stressing the fact that removing Masi will not make SC or VSC any less of a gamble, and his "perception" of it mostly benefiting RBR is incorrect.

[PlatinumZealot]

The fact of the matter is Masi's actions handed Max the championship. You cannot change that. That is written in history and will be written as such in F1's hall of fame.

Fact of the matter was that Masi almost handed the title to Lewis. He could have let the lapped cars pass much earlier. He didn't, partly because he had to answer all the calls from both Wolf an Horner I guess.
He then used his authority to make a creative call to right his wrong. Within the rules, but creative I give you that.

And the world rejoiced...(mostly, except for the UK and the UK based press).

Don't worry, Lewis will win his 8th title this year. No doubt the W13 will be as dominant as the W12 after the summerbreak and no doubt the UKbased press will label it the greatest comeback ever witnessed.

That's what we call a win-winsituation!

Average SC period is 4 laps. Average number of laps needed for lapped cars is 2 laps. The track clear signal was not shown until lap 57 I think. Masi actually broke his own rules by sending cars around before the track clear was shown.
So no point in arguing how the rules may be twisted.

[nzjrs]

I like watching the "it was a conspiracy to hand it to Lewis" and the "it was a conspiracy to hand it to Max" people argue. This is how we get to 700 pages.

Alternatively, maybe it wasn't a conspiracy?