2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Aesop]

Replying to Ringo.
stressing the fact that removing Masi will not make SC or VSC any less of a gamble, and his "perception" of it mostly benefiting RBR is incorrect.

Agreed. Furthermore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7c1KnMBFOU

A red flag, now that would have been against the rules. But then Hamilton probably would've won and the world wouldn't have rejoiced.

[dans79]

Is that so? Where can I read that or is it your own assumption/conclusion?

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... _48.12.pdf

That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning
to the pits at the end of the following lap, Article 48.13 overrides that and once the message
“Safety Car in this lap” has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end
of that lap.

The bold part is them indirectly and cowardly admitting that Masi didn't follow this part of the rules correctly.

“..any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass
the cars on the lead lap and the safety car”

[dans79]

Alternatively, maybe it wasn't a conspiracy?

Yea, it was one man's inability to do a simple job correctly, that was compounded by the fact that he works for an equally incapable organization with the main priority of covering its own backside.

[dans79]

A red flag, now that would have been against the rules.

If your are going to make such a claim, then you need to back it up with some hard proof.

As far as I can tell from the rules, A red flag is the only legal way Masi could have ensured the race didn't end under a safety car, and I'm more well versed on the sporting regulations than most people.

[SiLo]

Technically he could have brought the safety car in on the last lap and it still would have ended under green conditions. The satefy car line is before the race start/finish line.

Unless that rule changed recently (I have a funny feeling it did?)

[Jolle]

Technically he could have brought the safety car in on the last lap and it still would have ended under green conditions. The satefy car line is before the race start/finish line.

Unless that rule changed recently (I have a funny feeling it did?)

they changed it to the start finish line -> hence the pileup last year

[mrluke]

A red flag, now that would have been against the rules.

If your are going to make such a claim, then you need to back it up with some hard proof.

As far as I can tell from the rules, A red flag is the only legal way Masi could have ensured the race didn't end under a safety car, and I'm more well versed on the sporting regulations than most people.

Happy to be corrected but I think the issue with the red flag is that if 75% of the race distance has been completed then it doesn't restart.

There were 3 available options

1. Red flag and finish the race
2. Let all the cars unlap and finish under safety car
3. Dont let anybody unlap and resume with 1 lap to go.

None of those happened, Masi made up something else and thats why its controversial. Any of the other options would have been complained about but none would have seen RD being removed and the we would have all moved on.

[NathanOlder]

I think he certainly deserved a 5-10 second penalty in Brazil but that would have not lost him points either

Yes, Yes it would. He had Bottas 3 seconds behind him And being ahead going in to a championship showdown makes a hell of a difference.

[KeiKo403]

Verstappen did not do anything wrong in Monza. I think you will see a more uncompromising Hamilton this year when he's in combat with Verstappen. It was a pretty poor penalty.

I could point to the fact that he got a penalty but instead I'll let Honer & Marko's lack of comments on that incident speak for itself.
But why would we need to see a more uncompromising Hamilton this season? The evidence of last year demonstrates that a rather fair and conservative approach to racing would've been enough to win him the Championship (minus Masi's blunder).

I think he certainly deserved a 5-10 second penalty in Brazil but that would have not lost him points either.

Verstappen finished c.3 seconds infant of Bottas, a 5-10 second penalty would've cost him points.

And if you want to talk about benefits from a red flag, then Lewis would have not scored in Imola.

Drivers benefit from red flags all of the time. SA was different though. Verstappen was on the brink of receiving a penalty and needed to switch positions with Hamilton. This has always taken place on the track under normal racing conditions, this time it was done in the pits during a red flag, this also ended up swapping the drivers between clean/dirty sides of the track which put Hamilton on the dirty side.

The crux of the discussion should be the mistakes the steward made at Abu Dhabi.

When you say 'mistake' are you referring to the lap 1 incident between Hamilton & Verstappen not incurring any position swap/penalty (to be clear, as a Hamilton fan I have no trouble admitting that I can't see how that was right) or the stewards decision to back up Masi's handling of the restart at the end?

Not who deserved the WDC because Max deserved the title 100% and it is disrespectful as hell to be saying that he did not or putting funny symbols alongside. It is someone's life's work.

If Max deserved this Championship 100% then are we to take from that, that if Lewis would've won if the SC procedure was followed as per the rules that you'd be of the opinion that Lewis didn't deserve the Championship? Is so, that's your opinion and I wouldn't find it at all disrespectful if you would like to put an * by it.

For the most part, Max drive a fabulous season. I have no problem per se with him being crowned the Champion. Using words like deserving though is very subjective given how the title was ultimately decided. And I say that without trying to troll or bait any Verstappen supporters.

[dans79]

A red flag, now that would have been against the rules.

If your are going to make such a claim, then you need to back it up with some hard proof.

As far as I can tell from the rules, A red flag is the only legal way Masi could have ensured the race didn't end under a safety car, and I'm more well versed on the sporting regulations than most people.

Happy to be corrected but I think the issue with the red flag is that if 75% of the race distance has been completed then it doesn't restart.

There were 3 available options

1. Red flag and finish the race
2. Let all the cars unlap and finish under safety car
3. Dont let anybody unlap and resume with 1 lap to go.

None of those happened, Masi made up something else and thats why its controversial. Any of the other options would have been complained about but none would have seen RD being removed and the we would have all moved on.

75% only applies to points being awarded. If the leader has covered 75% of the race distance full points will be awarded.

The only thing thats prevents a race from being restarted, is a safety issue, like the track conditions are unsafe, or the time limit has been reached.

see article 5.4, it covers all the time constraints related to the race.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -11-11.pdf

Basically the race can restart as long as there hasn't been over 2 hours of racing, or over 3 hrs of racings & stoppages.

[Oleo]

Verstappen was 10 seconds ahead of Bottas in Brasil when he lost first place, a lead that had increased in the previous laps, despite having to defend his position. Verstappen then drove the car home after being overtaken. Had he been given a penalty, he would not have let his lead reduce to 3 seconds. Never mind the fact that any penalty would have been avoided anyway by an instruction to give the place back, as is common practice in such situations.

A red bull/fia conspiracy theory to give Verstappen the Championship is even more laughable. In Saudi Arabia Verstappen was given the instruction to let Hamilton past. Complying with that instruction, Hamilton inexplicably drove into the back of Verstappen, giving the FIA the perfect opportunity to penalize Hamilton and increase Verstappens lead in the Championship to ± 15 points with 1 race remaining. And then with their conspiracy to make Verstappen champion they decided to penalize Verstappen.... I am sure that was just to create more excitement for the final race....

Its incredible how people manage to twist reality to fit their desired outcome, I guess thats how brexit happened as well...
Mercedes had so much luck during the season, Imola red flag, Baku red flag, Hungary Bottas torpedo taking out half of Verstappens car, Silverstone small penalty, they made too many mistakes, poor race Monaco, Baku error, bad tactical calls in Hungary, Turkey and other races (f.i. France), while Verstappen kept pumping out result after result after result, finishing 1st or 2nd, except when he got screwed over by bad tyres, rammed of the track by Mercedes (2x) and in one overeager, probably illegal passattempt (of course he had luck as well (russia for example)).
This focus on some imaginary breaking of rules, as confirmed by the stewards in the protest, is a whole new level of poor loser-attitude...

[Aesop]

Verstappen was 10 seconds ahead of Bottas in Brasil when he lost first place, a lead that had increased in the previous laps, despite having to defend his position. Verstappen then drove the car home after being overtaken. Had he been given a penalty, he would not have let his lead reduce to 3 seconds. Never mind the fact that any penalty would have been avoided anyway by an instruction to give the place back, as is common practice in such situations.

A red bull/fia conspiracy theory to give Verstappen the Championship is even more laughable. In Saudi Arabia Verstappen was given the instruction to let Hamilton past. Complying with that instruction, Hamilton inexplicably drove into the back of Verstappen, giving the FIA the perfect opportunity to penalize Hamilton and increase Verstappens lead in the Championship to ± 15 points with 1 race remaining. And then with their conspiracy to make Verstappen champion they decided to penalize Verstappen.... I am sure that was just to create more excitement for the final race....

Its incredible how people manage to twist reality to fit their desired outcome, I guess thats how brexit happened as well...
Mercedes had so much luck during the season, Imola red flag, Baku red flag, Hungary Bottas torpedo taking out half of Verstappens car, Silverstone small penalty, they made too many mistakes, poor race Monaco, Baku error, bad tactical calls in Hungary, Turkey and other races (f.i. France), while Verstappen kept pumping out result after result after result, finishing 1st or 2nd, except when he got screwed over by bad tyres, rammed of the track by Mercedes (2x) and in one overeager, probably illegal passattempt (of course he had luck as well (russia for example)).
This focus on some imaginary breaking of rules, as confirmed by the stewards in the protest, is a whole new level of poor loser-attitude...

It is amusing though:)

[PlatinumZealot]

Replying to Ringo.
stressing the fact that removing Masi will not make SC or VSC any less of a gamble, and his "perception" of it mostly benefiting RBR is incorrect.

Agreed. Furthermore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7c1KnMBFOU

A red flag, now that would have been against the rules. But then Hamilton probably would've won and the world wouldn't have rejoiced.

Herbie Blash said he would have thrown a red flag if he were in Masi's position, (if it was required to have a sprint to the end).

[NathanOlder]

Verstappen was 10 seconds ahead of Bottas in Brasil when he lost first place, a lead that had increased in the previous laps, despite having to defend his position. Verstappen then drove the car home after being overtaken. Had he been given a penalty, he would not have let his lead reduce to 3 seconds. Never mind the fact that any penalty would have been avoided anyway by an instruction to give the place back, as is common practice in such situations.

Max didnt have the pace to stay with Lewis , thats a fact. He was getting slower lap by lap after Lewis passed, it was more likely tyre deg. Plus Bottas actually increased his pace towards the end. He also had newer tyres than Max. I thought a driver with Max's attitude would have kept pushing to try and force a mistake and not simply give up and drop off. But maybe he did.

[PlatinumZealot]

A red bull/fia conspiracy theory to give Verstappen the Championship is even more laughable. In Saudi Arabia Verstappen was given the instruction to let Hamilton past. Complying with that instruction, Hamilton inexplicably drove into the back of Verstappen, giving the FIA the perfect opportunity to penalize Hamilton and increase Verstappens lead in the Championship to ± 15 points with 1 race remaining.

Erm... Telemetry confrimed that Max braked unnecessarily. Even Helmut Marko apologized for this. IMO it was effectively a brake check and he should have been DSQ'd but he did it so sneakily he got away with a light punishment.

Didn't you think the first red flag in Jeddah was unusual? It took ten minutes for Masi to decide to fix barriers that didn't need to be fixed. Haha. Poor Masi.