2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[runningmanz]

So, any news about upgrades or fixes for Saudi?

What can we expect? Better/Worse?

Seidl said the other day they were aiming to have the brake fix for this weekend but he couldn't say what parts they were bringing. So it sounds like a decent chance of a proper fix and some other upgrades. No doubt they will be pulling out all stops to avoid further embarrassment and get us back in the mix.

[Emag]

What can realistically be done in a week though? Whatever parts they bring here were probably produced before they found out the extent of their lack of pace.

If they do run better here, it's either due to package optimizations or because the track might suit the car better.

Highly doubt it they have been able to bring any sort of fix / upgrades to tangibly improve the car. Too little time for that.

[runningmanz]

Unless everything was actually relatively ok particularly from a fundamental point of view at Barcelona and the brake issue screwing with the aero and track at Bahrain makes this an outlier. Stranger things have happened esp considering these are totally new regs. Who knows, guess we will find out

[CjC]

Norris: Yeah, confirm. They also have 100 points more downforce.
https://www.racefans.net/2022/03/24/nor ... of-plight/

I'm fairly convinced that the new brake solution which no longer ports hot air to the car is a big reason for the step back in performance.

Could this have been some kind of new blown diffuser concept but using the hot air from the brakes?

What has given you the impression they were browning the diffuser with hot air from the brakes? Or is it your own train of thought?
I don’t mean to sound condescending or anything btw I’m just curious

[mclaren111]

First time poster, long time lurker and a McLaren fan for almost forty years. My first Grand Prix was Brands Hatch in 76 aged just four and my next the Monaco Grand Prix in 88, a present from my dad as I was joining up later that year. The year Senna went 1.4 faster than Prost. McLaren all the way ever since. How could you not ??

I think people have to just relax and give the team a few weeks to a) identify exactly what the problems are and b) identify the solutions going forward before thinking about the planned update we should have seen last race going onto the car. The brake ducts seem to be huge issue as I am led to understand they affect the aero of the car in a significant way. We now have an interim brake solution and the last race was a circuit that never really seems to suit us anyway and was clearly used as a test session. Lack of testing and track time is all it is, plus the only feedback from Bahrain was from Lando and it seems Daniel has a slightly different style. Big fan of both before anyone sees that comment otherwise my point was that Daniel has a bit more experience than Lando, I have faith both will provide good feedback. James Key says the car is working as it should, it just needs more grip. That's encouraging. If the car was low on aero and mech grip and they didn't know if it was doing what it was supposed to I would be worried. The Mercedes engine being down a bit is out of our hands, they are pretty competent though and I would surmise that they have gone for a powerful engine as development is frozen but it will take steps of reliability updates to get the max out of it.

All I am looking for in Saudi is a bit of progress before Australia.

Welcome...

Also McLaren since 1988... Before that I supported my countryman Jody Scheckter...

[DC'sTightyWhitey's]

First time poster, long time lurker and a McLaren fan for almost forty years. My first Grand Prix was Brands Hatch in 76 aged just four and my next the Monaco Grand Prix in 88, a present from my dad as I was joining up later that year. The year Senna went 1.4 faster than Prost. McLaren all the way ever since. How could you not ??

I think people have to just relax and give the team a few weeks to a) identify exactly what the problems are and b) identify the solutions going forward before thinking about the planned update we should have seen last race going onto the car. The brake ducts seem to be huge issue as I am led to understand they affect the aero of the car in a significant way. We now have an interim brake solution and the last race was a circuit that never really seems to suit us anyway and was clearly used as a test session. Lack of testing and track time is all it is, plus the only feedback from Bahrain was from Lando and it seems Daniel has a slightly different style. Big fan of both before anyone sees that comment otherwise my point was that Daniel has a bit more experience than Lando, I have faith both will provide good feedback. James Key says the car is working as it should, it just needs more grip. That's encouraging. If the car was low on aero and mech grip and they didn't know if it was doing what it was supposed to I would be worried. The Mercedes engine being down a bit is out of our hands, they are pretty competent though and I would surmise that they have gone for a powerful engine as development is frozen but it will take steps of reliability updates to get the max out of it.

All I am looking for in Saudi is a bit of progress before Australia.

Welcome...

Also McLaren since 1988... Before that I supported my countryman Jody Scheckter...

Thanks mate, appreciated.

[Big Tea]

If the temporary break fix is completely messing up the flow from the front wing, it may have a huge overall effect if it nullifies this.
Interlinked problems could all see improvement

[Mansell89]

To be fair- the car never ever looked that bad in the Bahrain test and frankly the teams pretty much ran to form apart from McLaren. I wonder if the brake issue is doing something causing a domino effect.

A hopeful angle I know and likely not, but it would explain the GP weekend being so out of kilter.

I mean really- every team, pundit, analyst felt Macca were 4th and looked decent despite the brake issues.

Then they bolt in the temp fix and bam! Performance suddenly disappears.

Only one way to find out that’s for sure and we have to factor in tyre temps too- getting them in the best window is another new challenge and did the brakes affect that which affected the overall performance?

One things for sure- more racing and more data will help so roll on the weekend.

[mclaren111]

Turns 1 ,2 & 27 are what you'd consider Low Speed...

Let's hope MCL36 works much better here...

[Big Tea]

To be fair- the car never ever looked that bad in the Bahrain test and frankly the teams pretty much ran to form apart from McLaren. I wonder if the brake issue is doing something causing a domino effect.

A hopeful angle I know and likely not, but it would explain the GP weekend being so out of kilter.

I mean really- every team, pundit, analyst felt Macca were 4th and looked decent despite the brake issues.

Then they bolt in the temp fix and bam! Performance suddenly disappears.

Only one way to find out that’s for sure and we have to factor in tyre temps too- getting them in the best window is another new challenge and did the brakes affect that which affected the overall performance?

One things for sure- more racing and more data will help so roll on the weekend.

Did I read the airflow from the duct was stalling? If this was the case, then 'adding' an airflow can disrupt all along the floor edges and the outwash and what was deflecting around the rear tyres. I think it quite likely that a small disturbance 'upstream' can kill the lot. (but then again, I know very little aero and could be miles off)

[mwillems]

Norris: Yeah, confirm. They also have 100 points more downforce.
https://www.racefans.net/2022/03/24/nor ... of-plight/

I'm fairly convinced that the new brake solution which no longer ports hot air to the car is a big reason for the step back in performance.

Could this have been some kind of new blown diffuser concept but using the hot air from the brakes?

What has given you the impression they were browning the diffuser with hot air from the brakes? Or is it your own train of thought?
I don’t mean to sound condescending or anything btw I’m just curious

All I can see is air used to be ported back into the car.

The question about whether it can blow came from my imagination. No need to worry about being condescending, your technical and rule knowledge is almost certainly greater than mine.

[SmallSoldier]

I'm fairly convinced that the new brake solution which no longer ports hot air to the car is a big reason for the step back in performance.

Could this have been some kind of new blown diffuser concept but using the hot air from the brakes?

What has given you the impression they were browning the diffuser with hot air from the brakes? Or is it your own train of thought?
I don’t mean to sound condescending or anything btw I’m just curious

All I can see is air used to be ported back into the car.

The question about whether it can blow came from my imagination. No need to worry about being condescending, your technical and rule knowledge is almost certainly greater than mine.

I doubt any air from the front axle is been used for the diffuser, I’ve been thinking about it and can only point to one issue with the brakes affecting performance:

Warming the front tires: If they were using the heat from the brakes to manage front tires temperatures, changes in the brake ducts could prevent them from achieving optimum tire temperature, therefore losing mechanical grip.

I don’t think the impact of the size of the inlets would have a huge effect on aero, to the point of creating the struggles they are experiencing today and even though the exit of the hot air from the brakes will influence somehow the front tire wake, I can’t imagine that it would be a large impact to create the loss of downforce that the car is experiencing.

[mwillems]

What has given you the impression they were browning the diffuser with hot air from the brakes? Or is it your own train of thought?
I don’t mean to sound condescending or anything btw I’m just curious

All I can see is air used to be ported back into the car.

The question about whether it can blow came from my imagination. No need to worry about being condescending, your technical and rule knowledge is almost certainly greater than mine.

I doubt any air from the front axle is been used for the diffuser, I’ve been thinking about it and can only point to one issue with the brakes affecting performance:

Warming the front tires: If they were using the heat from the brakes to manage front tires temperatures, changes in the brake ducts could prevent them from achieving optimum tire temperature, therefore losing mechanical grip.

I don’t think the impact of the size of the inlets would have a huge effect on aero, to the point of creating the struggles they are experiencing today and even though the exit of the hot air from the brakes will influence somehow the front tire wake, I can’t imagine that it would be a large impact to create the loss of downforce that the car is experiencing.

Does this outlet atop the brake duct go to the tyres? I looked and assumed that this was to take hot air to be used in the car elsewhere.

Now I'm wondering if this was intended to bring cool air from elsewhere but for some reason in Bahrain this solution ceased to work in the way intended.

Am I seeing things, that pipe on the original solution is coming from the car and going to the brakes (or vice versa), so there is some kind of airflow being ported between the brakes and the car?

[SmallSoldier]

All I can see is air used to be ported back into the car.

The question about whether it can blow came from my imagination. No need to worry about being condescending, your technical and rule knowledge is almost certainly greater than mine.

I doubt any air from the front axle is been used for the diffuser, I’ve been thinking about it and can only point to one issue with the brakes affecting performance:

Warming the front tires: If they were using the heat from the brakes to manage front tires temperatures, changes in the brake ducts could prevent them from achieving optimum tire temperature, therefore losing mechanical grip.

I don’t think the impact of the size of the inlets would have a huge effect on aero, to the point of creating the struggles they are experiencing today and even though the exit of the hot air from the brakes will influence somehow the front tire wake, I can’t imagine that it would be a large impact to create the loss of downforce that the car is experiencing.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... rake-1.jpg

Does this outlet atop the brake duct go to the tyres? I looked and assumed that this was to take hot air to be used in the car elsewhere.

Now I'm wondering if this was intended to bring cool air from elsewhere but for some reason in Bahrain this solution ceased to work in the way intended.

Am I seeing things, that pipe on the original solution is coming from the car and going to the brakes (or vice versa), so there is some kind of airflow being ported between the brakes and the car?

What do you mean by the pipe coming from the car? It is either the pipe attached to the inlet or is the outlet (my guess it the one we are seeing in that picture is the outlet of hot air)… After the struggles, the following was the solution implemented while in Bahrain testing (previous version to the one used for the race):

[SmallSoldier]

This is a close up picture of the front wheels… I don’t see how air could be routed back into the car… I doubt is been done through the wishbones, that would be a lot of routing hot air, to go where? The only outlets in the back of the car are on the “Cannon Tunnel” where the hot air from the engine exits.