2022 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 11 - 13

[chrisc90]

Because its a poor narrative thats stuck in peoples heads. Alonso is correct with his Spa comments.

Alonso talks nonsense. He’s an irrelevance in F1 nowadays, with an embarrassing resentment of Lewis, and is stuck up Max’s ***. Not really worth listening too or paying attention too.

He isnt wrong though really is he.

How many first lap or wheel to wheel contact has Lewis had this year?

[Tvetovnato]

No, sorry, should have worded it better. If you have Hamilton or Verstappen alongside you know they are going to stay there, and force the accident upon you. Most of the other drivers know that and yield.

It is not that they adapt their driving to other drivers, it is just that the other drivers adapt their driving to them.

Unfortunately Hamilton and Verstappen havent figured out yet that that strategy does not work on each other.

Don’t drag Hamilton into the filth that Verstappen is doing. Hamilton backed out of multiple occasions last year to save his race and let Verstappen off the hook. When he doesn’t yield, it ends in a crash where Verstappen is penalized by the stewards more often than not. Hamilton has always been considered to be one of the greats in wheel to wheel action by multiple drivers and has usually no problems with anyone, bar a few racing incidents as all drivers have from time to time.

Verstappen is unable to keep it clean, not because of bad car control, but because of bad attitude and not caring if he ruins other drivers races, just because he feels like it. He even admitted that after this race. He is a petulant child who was not raised properly, which is quite evident today, not only because of his comments on the Hamilton take-out attempt, but also with his behaviour towards Perez.

You say he has a history of ruining other drivers' races, but how come there is no record of this beyond interactions with Hamilton? How come he didn't have trouble with Russell, Leclerc, or Sainz all year in so many wheel to wheel battles with them and we were treated to spectacular battles this season with verstappen against the other three in places like Bahrain, Spain, Austria, USA, Imola and the sprint yesterday?

Because it’s evident that Hamilton is so much inside Verstappen’s head that he gets red mist as soon as he sees him. The penalty standings between the pair speak for itself. And then he was even let off the hook SEVERELY last year in both Brazil and Jeddah for some of his antics, which would have added to that tally. He was literally saved from a penalty in Brazil for the infamous driving Hamilton off track moment in turn 4 because of ”missing camera angles” and the idiotic brake testing in Jeddah could easily have been a race ban if things were not done for ”the show”.

And this will continue until he gets a proper punishment that hurts his title chances. Right now he had nothing to lose so he just crashed into Hamilton o purpose. Just read his post race interview about it. He even had the courtesy to admit it himself, I’m not making things up here

[Tvetovnato]

Because its a poor narrative thats stuck in peoples heads. Alonso is correct with his Spa comments.

Alonso talks nonsense. He’s an irrelevance in F1 nowadays, with an embarrassing resentment of Lewis, and is stuck up Max’s ***. Not really worth listening too or paying attention too.

He isnt wrong though really is he.

How many first lap or wheel to wheel contact has Lewis had this year?

Many contacts which were not even his fault. You tried to bring it up earlier in the year too without any success.

[Gooch]

You say he has a history of ruining other drivers' races, but how come there is no record of this beyond interactions with Hamilton? How come he didn't have trouble with Russell, Leclerc, or Sainz all year in so many wheel to wheel battles with them and we were treated to spectacular battles this season with verstappen against the other three in places like Bahrain, Spain, Austria, USA, Imola and the sprint yesterday?

He's up to 14 penalty points from collisions in his career which I'm pretty sure is the most all time (next closest I can find is 10). Also the points he earned today should equalize him for general points with Vettel for the most all time (32 total).

Now obviously this is not comprehensive as the system was only introduced in 2014 (I would love to see how many point Hamilton would've got for the pit incident at Canada 2008, for example) but to give you an idea Bottas, Hamilton, Ricciardo all earned way less in the same amount of time.

https://f1statblog.co.uk/f1-penalty-points/

[AR3-GP]

Because its a poor narrative thats stuck in peoples heads. Alonso is correct with his Spa comments.

I agree it's a poor narrative, but I also think it's poor form on your part to perpetuate what Alonso said too. I don't think Hamilton is "only good from the front".

What I think is what the post a few messages above said. The likes of Verstappen, Alonso, and Hamilton are extremely successful for many reasons and the reason they are so successful is the same reason they have some much trouble with one another.

[Tvetovnato]

Because its a poor narrative thats stuck in peoples heads. Alonso is correct with his Spa comments.

The comments where he apologized to Lewis and admitting to the world that his comments were incorrect right?

[101FlyingDutchman]

Because its a poor narrative thats stuck in peoples heads. Alonso is correct with his Spa comments.

I agree it's a poor narrative, but I also think it's poor form on your part to perpetuate what Alonso said too. I don't think Hamilton is "only good from the front".

What I think is what the post a few messages above said. The likes of Verstappen, Alonso, and Hamilton are extremely successful for many reasons and the reason they are so successful is the same reason they have some much trouble with one another.

Agreed totally. Which is why they both need to wisen up and learn to respect each other on track. Because it could be extremely costly next year for either one if they keep giving eachother no quarter.
VER has shown he can race with other drivers and so has HAM. This current mindset the two of them are in, is going to potentially cost either of them a world title

[chrisc90]

Because its a poor narrative thats stuck in peoples heads. Alonso is correct with his Spa comments.

I agree it's a poor narrative, but I also think it's poor form on your part to perpetuate what Alonso said too. I don't think Hamilton is "only good from the front".

What I think is what the post a few messages above said. The likes of Verstappen, Alonso, and Hamilton are extremely successful for many reasons and the reason they are so successful is the same reason they have some much trouble with one another.

I think he’s a good racer, but his wheel to wheel battles are nowhere near as good as others in my opinion. When his car is more on par with the others around him instead of being off in the distance a second a lap faster. We’ve all seen the videos going around.
Of course that’s my opinion and some will agree, some will disagree. I bet it would be good to put the greats in a F2 car which is identical and see what happens.

[mzivtins]

There are things on social media claiming there is knowledge that Perez deliberately span at Monaco, and for some reason RB know this.

If this is true then I agree with max, but for it to be true it means Perez as a person is flawed, abd red bull leadership could put themselves in a position of being involved and would likely have to exit the sport.

Given how ridiculous it would be for these things to be true, I call bullshit.

But I like that max has shown the max verstappen =! Red bull.

Distancing himself from the management of the team is a smart move.

He has had two wdc's under dubious circumstances through no fault of his own, yet he bears the brunt of the entire thing.

He deserves more than that. As does every driver on the grid.

[west52keep64]

You say he has a history of ruining other drivers' races, but how come there is no record of this beyond interactions with Hamilton? How come he didn't have trouble with Russell, Leclerc, or Sainz all year in so many wheel to wheel battles with them and we were treated to spectacular battles this season with verstappen against the other three in places like Bahrain, Spain, Austria, USA, Imola and the sprint yesterday?

You're absolutely right, but what sets Hamilton apart from the 19 other drivers?

[Incognito]

I think he’s a good racer, but his wheel to wheel battles are nowhere near as good as others in my opinion. When his car is more on par with the others around him instead of being off in the distance a second a lap faster.

People who have been watching the sport for more than 5 minutes have seen plenty of that and Hamilton was generally competing for the WDC in the final race of those seasons...you know, because he's quite good.

I bet it would be good to put the greats in a F2 car which is identical and see what happens.

Hamilton beat Alonso and Button and Rosberg in identical cars, and Vettel in the 'more-than-a-match' Ferrari. And, many would argue, Verstappen last year (despite long COVID, being a pensioner in F1 terms and 'one-off' rulings around 'racing incidents'). How many reigning WDCs have been in the sister Red Bull to 'Super Max'? And, remind me, how did Verstappen do against Ricciardo in an identical car?

I'm pretty sure Verstappen is the last person who wants to be put in identical car with all of those guys in their prime. Unless Masi is running the race, of course.

[AR3-GP]

There are things on social media claiming there is knowledge that Perez deliberately span at Monaco, and for some reason RB know this.

If this is true then I agree with max, but for it to be true it means Perez as a person is flawed, abd red bull leadership could put themselves in a position of being involved and would likely have to exit the sport.

Given how ridiculous it would be for these things to be true, I call bullshit.

I don't want to dwell too much on Monaco, but look at this twitter thread. Be sure to click the full conversation.

It certainly makes you go hmmm....there's more to this.

[MadMax]

Max was off the track at monza. This was a case of Lewis not leaving enough room on the inside when there was a car alongside him.

A bit like that Lewis did at Spa.

The car wasn't alongside him. It came steaming in.

Look, Max admitted in an interview to deliberately driving in to the contact. There is no argument on whose shoulders the blame sits for this one.

I think you are letting your imagination run wild with that interview. It's not the smoking gun you claim it is.

Max wasn't really under any obligation to back out when he's racing for position. It just so happens that if either driver had backed out, there would not have been a collision. The stewards can't tell a driver they have to backout. It's up the driver. All the stewards can do is administer penalties if they feel a driver did something wrong. Whether Max claims he could have backed out or chose not to is tangential because it's the same thing you could ask Hamilton. Hamilton likewise chose not to backout.

It really doesn't matter if you knew there would be a collision if you feel you are entitled to space and stay in the gap anyway. Hamilton likewise must have seen Max's car (or maybe he said he didn't see?).

Max said he knew the gap would close and he went for it anyway. That's a smoking gun if ever there was one. He admitted deliberately putting his car in a position where he knew contact would occur.

You continually attempt to blame Hamilton, and that is your right, but when a person admits to a crime that's fairly good evidence that it's his fault.

[Incognito]

You say he has a history of ruining other drivers' races, but how come there is no record of this beyond interactions with Hamilton? How come he didn't have trouble with Russell, Leclerc, or Sainz all year in so many wheel to wheel battles with them and we were treated to spectacular battles this season with verstappen against the other three in places like Bahrain, Spain, Austria, USA, Imola and the sprint yesterday?

He literally hit Sainz yesterday at T1 on lap 19? That's why Verstappen lost his endplate

[AR3-GP]

The car wasn't alongside him. It came steaming in.

Look, Max admitted in an interview to deliberately driving in to the contact. There is no argument on whose shoulders the blame sits for this one.

I think you are letting your imagination run wild with that interview. It's not the smoking gun you claim it is.

Max wasn't really under any obligation to back out when he's racing for position. It just so happens that if either driver had backed out, there would not have been a collision. The stewards can't tell a driver they have to backout. It's up the driver. All the stewards can do is administer penalties if they feel a driver did something wrong. Whether Max claims he could have backed out or chose not to is tangential because it's the same thing you could ask Hamilton. Hamilton likewise chose not to backout.

It really doesn't matter if you knew there would be a collision if you feel you are entitled to space and stay in the gap anyway. Hamilton likewise must have seen Max's car (or maybe he said he didn't see?).

Max said he knew the gap would close and he went for it anyway. That's a smoking gun if ever there was one. He admitted deliberately putting his car in a position where he knew contact would occur.

You continually attempt to blame Hamilton, and that is your right, but when a person admits to a crime that's fairly good evidence that it's his fault.

Again I don't think you quite get my point.

Do you remember when Stroll drove Vettel into the grass yesterday? If Vettel hadn't moved and let Stroll smash into him and admitted afterwards that he "knew Stroll would just smash into him" and Stroll did exactly that, does that make it somehow not Stroll's fault?

Sometimes drivers want to make a point if they think they are entitled to space.