2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[214270]

Truth be told those S had done a fair few laps by the time DRS was enabled incl quali laps, it wasn’t going to be easy.

It’s a worrying sign the McL form, consistency is an important marker and they’ve had better speed on Sat & Sun, 2 races in a row now.

[denyall]

The only consolation for the disappointing result is that Mercedes haven't introduced a real upgrade since Monaco but have still picked up podiums here and there despite the opposition mounting massive upgrades. The hope is that the upgrade package for Hungary/Spa provides the same (or better) boost McLaren got from theirs.

This comment is how I feel after every race weekend for the last 18 months.

At least THIS time we know (we know this right?) the floor and probably diffuser are still the W14 and aren't designed to work with the w14.rev2 suspension,side pods, and front wing...

Pass me the copium...

[j_ste]

Slower than a McLaren on harder tyres...around Silverstone. Cant PR spin that

And another Mercedes powered team makes the leap.

But there is an excuse. One glaring excuse that both drivers can use...damn, they are 2nd in WCC. Lets not act like either of them arent pulling their weight. Both have been let down.

Ultimately, every driver on a basic level wants the same thing. Less drag and more downforce...get that and youre golden. Right now, they havent done either

But on the other hand, to be easily beaten by four different teams, is mildly embarrassing.

Not being able to turn the car appears to be something that could hurt performance but I'm just a nobody

Anything constructive you'd like to add, or maybe you noted Mercedes team thread as a bashing exercise?

Remarkable that this thread continues it's trend.

Hardly bashing.

I could do what Bono did and talk about how it was a great drive but in reality. McLaren deserved a double podium today.
The leap they have made has to be of concern to Mercedes because they appear to have achieved when Mercedes have struggled to for two years. Now, their car is still a little draggy but the rear is under them through high speed and the MG is there in slow corners. Mclaren have built something to be proud of

So, if you want to spray some freshener on that, be my guest but the truth is a difficult one to digest.

[Hammerfist]

Lewis was in awe of the Mclaren through Maggot and Becketts. I believe Peter Windsor reported they had the fastest exit speed out of that complex. Amazing what they've done to that car, which was a backmarker to start the year. Merc the third best car in race pace now. At least we jumped back in front of the Aston Martin. The Ferrari has more raw pace but their tire life is still an issue, although less so.

Norris on Hards was 10kph faster than Hamilton on softs at the exit of Copse.
Piastri was routinely setting purple in S2 throughout the first stint.

That McLaren generated monster downforce through the high speed stuff.

Lewis made some ground back on the McLarens at the end of the first stint but that's it overall. McLaren was the faster car on merit.

Unbelievable. They are going to be rocketships around Hungary again. Sector 2 I think they will be purple there.

[AMG.Tzan]

Embarrassing last few laps…

There are a lot of questions waiting to be answered! Drag, high speed performance being the biggest of them…! All teams have 3-4 rear wings for certain circuits! Yet Mercedes has one high downforce RW (undeveloped since start of 2022) and a medium downforce one!

I really hope they don’t show up at Spa and Monza with a trimmed version of the second one…

[Spoutnik]

Like most of the races last year luck/drivers make the car looks good. It's an issue cause in Brazil it made them believe they could make this concept work.
- Without the dreadful strategy call from Ferrari, Leclerc would've finished ahead of one of the Merc at least. Leclerc was keeping Russell behind, and he had harder compound... Why on earth stop him ? (i.e Vasseur said they didn't push enough the tires)
- Sainz I don't really know I think Hamilton would've passed him anyway.
- Perez started out of position
- McLaren were easily faster
- Russell and Ham did a mega first stint which unfold new strategies possibilities
- They haven't solved the drag issue imo.. Russell couldn't pass the Ferrari even if he was a bit faster, Hamilton couldn't keep up with Norris on the inside going to Copse despite running less ground by being on the inside... The data showed it too

[ValeVida46]

Hardly bashing.

I could do what Bono did and talk about how it was a great drive but in reality. McLaren deserved a double podium today.
The leap they have made has to be of concern to Mercedes because they appear to have achieved when Mercedes have struggled to for two years. Now, their car is still a little draggy but the rear is under them through high speed and the MG is there in slow corners. Mclaren have built something to be proud of

So, if you want to spray some freshener on that, be my guest but the truth is a difficult one to digest.

Of course it's bashing.

One week Ferrari will beat Mercedes and it's the end of the world.
The next week it will be Aston Martin and it's the end of the world.
This week it's a mighty impressive McLaren and it's licence to bash.

But, there's a problem. Ferrari's race pace was slower than Mercedes. Aston were totally at sea. And McLaren came up with the goods for that is now the 9th and 10th race of the season.
They had a massive upgrade, and Kudos to them for sacrificing half their season to get there, 144 points behind Mercedes.

Meanwhile Mercedes extend their lead for 2nd position in the F1 championship to over 20 points on Aston and 35 over Ferrari. Was it Mercs best race? No. But they got the points and did far better than the doomers were posting on here this weekend and in the race threads too.
What is wrong with perspective and a modicum of reason?

[mkay]

- They haven't solved the drag issue imo.. Russell couldn't pass the Ferrari even if he was a bit faster, Hamilton couldn't keep up with Norris on the inside going to Copse despite running less ground by being on the inside... The data showed it too

I think it's deployment related; Norris probably knew he needed to deploy specifically there knowing Hamilton tends to be closest to him down the Wellington Straight. Mercedes did have a few kph on McLaren, but not enough to make up for the time loss in the second sector through the high speed stuff.

Mercedes just needs more rear downforce. Fact that Lewis' rear softs gave up after 14 laps is quite damning.

But, there's a problem. Ferrari's race pace was slower than Mercedes. Aston were totally at sea. And McLaren came up with the goods for that is now the 9th and 10th race of the season.
They had a massive upgrade, and Kudos to them for sacrificing half their season to get there, 144 points behind Mercedes.

Meanwhile Mercedes extend their lead for 2nd position in the F1 championship to over 20 points on Aston and 35 over Ferrari. Was it Mercs best race? No. But they got the points and did far better than the doomers were posting on here this weekend and in the race threads too.
What is wrong with perspective and a modicum of reason?

Fair enough, but if McLaren can routinely finish P2-P4, they will quickly start to catch Ferrari-AM and eventually Merc. Still lots of racing left.

[ringo]

Lmao Russell more concerned about Ham leapfrogging him, apart from anything else.


Living rent free

Yes this is why he is not the long term solution to developing the car. He just wants it be better in his hands than lewis' and he would be satisfied.
Hamilton is the right man to guide the development. His acheivements and experience has to be respected and it's paying dividends when the team actually do listen to him.

[littlebigcat]

A bit of perspective, McLaren have just strapped on their upgrades that have been in design and production from when they realised their error pre season. Mercedes are two months behind that really.

[ringo]

Lewis was in awe of the Mclaren through Maggot and Becketts. I believe Peter Windsor reported they had the fastest exit speed out of that complex. Amazing what they've done to that car, which was a backmarker to start the year. Merc the third best car in race pace now. At least we jumped back in front of the Aston Martin. The Ferrari has more raw pace but their tire life is still an issue, although less so.

Ferrari have improved. Russel could not make a dent on them for the whole race. So thier deg isnt so bad as it used to be. What is good is mercedes is consistently in 3rd. They car is not as moody relative to ferrari and Aston Martin; though Aston could just be falling back to fight with alpine and williams.
But yes Mcalren seem solidly ahead of eveveryone else with their package.
Mercedes still have some cards to play but they must swallow their pride and copy redbull some more.
There are more things to tap into like the sidepods, rare brake fins, floor, and rear suspension.
Redbull seem to be less godly when its tyres arent working well. Instead of 20 seconds ahead it can come down to 6 or 4 when max isnt comfortable.

[AR3-GP]

A bit of perspective, McLaren have just strapped on their upgrades that have been in design and production from when they realised their error pre season. Mercedes are two months behind that really.

Didn't Mercedes say their own launch car was not the real W14, and that it would appear in Imola? To me, Mercedes and Mclaren were in lockstep. They both admitted that they had b-spec cars in the works since before pre-season. The only difference of course is Mclaren have quite a bit more Windtunnel hours. This may play a factor. there is a strong correlation between teams with more windtunnel hours and their improvement. AMR, Mclaren, Williams.

[Tvetovnato]

It’s unimportant whether McLaren catches them or not since it isn’t for P1 in the championship amyway. Wouldn’t it even be better to finish behind this season to get more development time in the future? Nothing major will be won this season, not even with a big development push. The real gain lies in changing the fundamentals in the concept which is done only with the W15. The only hope is to snatch an odd victory this season like Brazil last year, which they can still do (with a lot of luck involved).

[rifrafs2kees]

Lmao Russell more concerned about Ham leapfrogging him, apart from anything else.

Living rent free

Not a good look for sure. Those 2 will have problems if they have a championship potential car.

[j_ste]

Hardly bashing.

I could do what Bono did and talk about how it was a great drive but in reality. McLaren deserved a double podium today.
The leap they have made has to be of concern to Mercedes because they appear to have achieved when Mercedes have struggled to for two years. Now, their car is still a little draggy but the rear is under them through high speed and the MG is there in slow corners. Mclaren have built something to be proud of

So, if you want to spray some freshener on that, be my guest but the truth is a difficult one to digest.

Of course it's bashing.

One week Ferrari will beat Mercedes and it's the end of the world.
The next week it will be Aston Martin and it's the end of the world.
This week it's a mighty impressive McLaren and it's licence to bash.

But, there's a problem. Ferrari's race pace was slower than Mercedes. Aston were totally at sea. And McLaren came up with the goods for that is now the 9th and 10th race of the season.
They had a massive upgrade, and Kudos to them for sacrificing half their season to get there, 144 points behind Mercedes.

Meanwhile Mercedes extend their lead for 2nd position in the F1 championship to over 20 points on Aston and 35 over Ferrari. Was it Mercs best race? No. But they got the points and did far better than the doomers were posting on here this weekend and in the race threads too.
What is wrong with perspective and a modicum of reason?

Reason? Be honest with what you are seeing...you really think they are second in WCC because of their pace or the issues of others?

Both Ferrari and Mclaren were faster today. Ferrai did a Ferrari and got in their own way + were unlucky.

If you want to throw a party for being 2nd in WCC. Then thats good for you. But in their effort to catch up to Red Bull, they are still in the wilderness. While other teams are taking big leaps