2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Spoutnik]

Hardly bashing.

I could do what Bono did and talk about how it was a great drive but in reality. McLaren deserved a double podium today.
The leap they have made has to be of concern to Mercedes because they appear to have achieved when Mercedes have struggled to for two years. Now, their car is still a little draggy but the rear is under them through high speed and the MG is there in slow corners. Mclaren have built something to be proud of

So, if you want to spray some freshener on that, be my guest but the truth is a difficult one to digest.

Of course it's bashing.

One week Ferrari will beat Mercedes and it's the end of the world.
The next week it will be Aston Martin and it's the end of the world.
This week it's a mighty impressive McLaren and it's licence to bash.

But, there's a problem. Ferrari's race pace was slower than Mercedes. Aston were totally at sea. And McLaren came up with the goods for that is now the 9th and 10th race of the season.
They had a massive upgrade, and Kudos to them for sacrificing half their season to get there, 144 points behind Mercedes.

Ferrari would've finished ahead of both Merc if they didn't bottled the strategy as they usually do.
Russell couldn't pass Leclerc on track with softer tyres.
Hamilton spent most of the first stint +2/2.5sec behind Sainz. He closed on the gap to +1.2 at the end of Sainz' stint, but he couldn't get any closer.

As I said, the team is good at maximizing, and they've go - probably - the best driver pairing. But they were not so much faster than the Ferrari and were slower than the McLaren, and given their one lap pace on Saturday + lack of top speed it's pretty lucky to finish P5 and P3.

[Spoutnik]

Lmao Russell more concerned about Ham leapfrogging him, apart from anything else.


Living rent free

Yes this is why he is not the long term solution to developing the car. He just wants it be better in his hands than lewis' and he would be satisfied.
Hamilton is the right man to guide the development. His acheivements and experience has to be respected and it's paying dividends when the team actually do listen to him.

I can't remember a race, since, Canada 2022, were he was much faster than Hamilton really.
He's bit too crazy to me and a PR merchant.
The team lost 1 year thanks to his fugazi win in Brazil and weird feedbacks

[Big Tea]

Yes it's clear that they are not and McLaren, via Andrea Stella, openly admitted at the start of the season that they missed a trick and will be building their floor like RedBull to feature vertical vortex flow stuctures.

Mercedes should really take a second look and stop being proud.

But if you do the same as the others, you can only get as goo as them. A different angle could set you in front.
(Yeh, you have to have the right different angle, but ...)

[AR3-GP]

Yes it's clear that they are not and McLaren, via Andrea Stella, openly admitted at the start of the season that they missed a trick and will be building their floor like RedBull to feature vertical vortex flow stuctures.

Mercedes should really take a second look and stop being proud.

But if you do the same as the others, you can only get as goo as them. A different angle could set you in front.
(Yeh, you have to have the right different angle, but ...)

The problem is the WT resource allocation. Maybe the W13's performance could be unlocked, eventually. There simply wasn't enough windtunnel hours or patience with the driver to do it.

Getting the most out of these regs requires developing a design with a low cost to performance ratio.

[Spoutnik]

A bit of perspective, McLaren have just strapped on their upgrades that have been in design and production from when they realised their error pre season. Mercedes are two months behind that really.

They are 1 year and 2 months behind.
They realized their mistake at the beginning of 2022. But listening to Russell feedbacks and believing in the project after the fugazi win in Brazil (same as here.. they maximized everything and their competitors were not on a good day : it made them looks good) kept them on the same path for 2023.
Lewis saw it at the first test. But the chassis was born and its probably over for this year to.

What's dissapointing is not being able to solve some big issue throughout the year : one lap pace, terrible top speed (it should've cost them their place against the Ferrari if their strategy team wasnt run by a clown), bad traction...

[chrisc90]

I don’t think the current direction is solely down to George. That’s a bit unfair on him. He got a win in what’s as described as a ‘Sh!tbox’ by Toto. The fact they were slightly more competitive in the last few races shown the team there might have been pace on the W13. It wasn’t on George at all.

They are a long way behind, and of McLaren and Mercedes both thought their concept wasn’t good at the start of the season during testing, then Mclaren have massively out developed Mercedes by the pace in the last 2 races.

[Hammerfist]

The problem with copying someone's design is that you might run into a dead end because you don't have a clear understanding of the concept. I suspect this is what is happening to Aston Martin now. And let's see how far Mclaren can now take it. I'm more worried that the in season development at Merc seems to have stalled, for whatever reason. I don't think copying redbull is the way to go.

[Spoutnik]

I don’t think the current direction is solely down to George. That’s a bit unfair on him. He got a win in what’s as described as a ‘Sh!tbox’ by Toto. The fact they were slightly more competitive in the last few races shown the team there might have been pace on the W13. It wasn’t on George at all.

They are a long way behind, and of McLaren and Mercedes both thought their concept wasn’t good at the start of the season during testing, then Mclaren have massively out developed Mercedes by the pace in the last 2 races.

His only goal is to have a car in which he can beat Lewis.. The team recognized they didn't listen to Lewis.
It's a bit like Sainz and Leclerc. When the car is slow, it - suprisingly - fit better Sainz' driving style, it's the direction Ferrari took in the 2nd half of 2022 we saw were it leads them.

The team overall isn't able to solve the obvious issues of the car : i) laughable top seed (or let's say efficiency cause they are running less wing) ii) traction issue out of the slow speed corners (due - apparently - to suspension design) iii) one lap pace (which is costly on race day as the car isn't good at overtaking car due to the lack of top speed) iv) high speed corner (which was their strenght last year apparently..)

[r85]

I'd say Mercedes are holding up pretty well considering Ferrari, AM and McLaren brought a new underbody to their car. While a lot of credit goes to Lewis and George, it really makes me wonder what they're capable of if Mercedes brings a new underbody.

[zibby43]

Mercedes now have proof of two teams that can bring 1s+ upgrades either in the course of the off-season, or in-season.

[ringo]

I'd say Mercedes are holding up pretty well considering Ferrari, AM and McLaren brought a new underbody to their car. While a lot of credit goes to Lewis and George, it really makes me wonder what they're capable of if Mercedes brings a new underbody.

The two drivers are the reason they are P-2 in the constructors. Lewis and George deliver most races. You hardly see one making a mess of the weekend like Stroll, Perez is or Leclerc which cuts the maximum points their cars are potentially able to collect. Merc have collected close to the theoretical maximum the W14 can deliver, where as Ferrari, Aston and even Redbull haven't.
The car rightfully should be 4th in the championship on pace.

[AR3-GP]

I'd say Mercedes are holding up pretty well considering Ferrari, AM and McLaren brought a new underbody to their car. While a lot of credit goes to Lewis and George, it really makes me wonder what they're capable of if Mercedes brings a new underbody.

The two drivers are the reason they are P-2 in the constructors. Lewis and George deliver most races. You hardly see one making a mess of the weekend like Stroll, Perez is or Leclerc which cuts the maximum points their cars are potentially able to collect. Merc have collected close to the theoretical maximum the W14 can deliver, where as Ferrari, Aston and even Redbull haven't.
The car rightfully should be 4th in the championship on pace.

It’s ironic because it means cars which are arguably faster, are also taking the advantage of more WT hours due to the fact that the allocation is not based directly on pace, but instead the WCC.

I have been saying for months now, that they would benefit from tanking the WCC. Mercedes with P7 or or P8 windtunnel time would be a frightening combination heading into 2024.

[Puffpirat]

The drivers aren’t the only reason, albeit a big one, for Merc being P2. It’s also simply their opponents seem to change on a race by race basis while we are always there or there abouts. Stroll wasted Aston’s early season form and now we have Ferrari and McLaren in there too constantly taking points away from each other.

Car performance wise we have to carry a flaw through the season which is the T shaped tub, which isn’t needed for the widepods, but can’t be changed now. Imho they’re confirming the development direction set in Monaco and now furthered here with the new front wing. They won’t get to full potential this season anyway. Might aswell confirm that the W15 starts off with the right concept.

Toto told sky after the race that there will be new parts for Spa but called it „hundredth developments“. Doesn’t really sound like a new floor but let’s see

[organic]

I predict a new floor at Hungary

[chrisc90]

Toto told sky after the race that there will be new parts for Spa but called it „hundredth developments“. Doesn’t really sound like a new floor but let’s see

What Toto says and what comes to fruition is highly questionable for these last 1.5 seasons.