2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Vanja #66]

So the question is does Ferrari need the help of (inefficient) beam+RW DF to compensate a relative lack of underfloor DF to keep the tires from degrading? Or was this just a conservative choice in view of relatively few laps available in FPs?

I don't think it was an expected aero setup what RB and McL chose, but it did work for them in Q and R, track simply came to them with more and more rubber. Ferrari most likely didn't even consider changing to smaller BW and setting up the car that way, it's not a small change at all

[ing.]

So the question is does Ferrari need the help of (inefficient) beam+RW DF to compensate a relative lack of underfloor DF to keep the tires from degrading? Or was this just a conservative choice in view of relatively few laps available in FPs?

I don't think it was an expected aero setup what RB and McL chose, but it did work for them in Q and R, track simply came to them with more and more rubber. Ferrari most likely didn't even consider changing to smaller BW and setting up the car that way, it's not a small change at all

Canadian GP will defo need different wing and will be the big test of aero efficiency, mechanical compliance and grip, and energy deployment with the long straight and all the chicanes that need to be attacked with good entry speed and good traction/grunt out of these.

[f1316]

So the question is does Ferrari need the help of (inefficient) beam+RW DF to compensate a relative lack of underfloor DF to keep the tires from degrading? Or was this just a conservative choice in view of relatively few laps available in FPs?

I don't think it was an expected aero setup what RB and McL chose, but it did work for them in Q and R, track simply came to them with more and more rubber. Ferrari most likely didn't even consider changing to smaller BW and setting up the car that way, it's not a small change at all

Why do you think this is related to wing level (and hence drag) rather then deployment? Given Leclerc and Fred have both referred to “power strategy” or “hybrid management”, this seems to imply it’s more a question of mapping. Do you think this is just a more convenient public stance? Genuine question, but what they are saying implied that they don’t think it’s the wing level that’s to blame.

[scuderiabrandon]

So the question is does Ferrari need the help of (inefficient) beam+RW DF to compensate a relative lack of underfloor DF to keep the tires from degrading? Or was this just a conservative choice in view of relatively few laps available in FPs?

I don't think it was an expected aero setup what RB and McL chose, but it did work for them in Q and R, track simply came to them with more and more rubber. Ferrari most likely didn't even consider changing to smaller BW and setting up the car that way, it's not a small change at all

They get blind sided by how much the other teams sandbag on Friday n Saturday practice sessions. Leclerc's radio comms after qualifying somewhat confirm this. So when they look at their performance, they think they are doing enough, in hindsight it obviously isn't. This is something they will have to note going forward.

Low speed performance was not as dreadful as it's been up until Miami. Some understeer in turn 7 plagued us, but ultimately the time loss there wasn't massive. Braking into Aqcue Minerali, Alta & Rivazza I would say we were the class of the field. Even in the tractions phases looked a lot better as well. Mclaren looked a bit lazy coming out of Alta, took forever to rotate, this was visibly comparable when Piastri was following Leclerc and from the timing when Leclerc was following Norris.

[Spoutnik]

I thought Ferrari had the best PU this year

[Vanja #66]

Canadian GP will defo need different wing and will be the big test of aero efficiency, mechanical compliance and grip, and energy deployment with the long straight and all the chicanes that need to be attacked with good entry speed and good traction/grunt out of these.

It will be the same setup as Miami for all teams basically, so same rear wing for Ferrari and single-piece beam wing in Canada. Monaco will be typical highest load for everyone of course, but I think we may see a few surprises in Barcelona...

Why do you think this is related to wing level (and hence drag) rather then deployment? Given Leclerc and Fred have both referred to “power strategy” or “hybrid management”, this seems to imply it’s more a question of mapping. Do you think this is just a more convenient public stance? Genuine question, but what they are saying implied that they don’t think it’s the wing level that’s to blame.

Because higher drag is quite obvious when you look at how Miami went and how Imola went in terms of top speeds between Top 3 teams, even if Ferrari Imola upgrade undoubtedly improved their Top Speed by around 1-2kmh in total in my view.

[scuderiabrandon]

I thought Ferrari had the best PU this year

deployment strategies change from track to track, don't be silly generalizing like this.

[Emag]

Interesting....Charles pointing out an engine/energy deficit to McLaren and RBR rather than chassis. first time I've heard that

that can explain poor speed in the first sector, ferrari had to change PU for Lecler.

Lecler:

"We lost everything in the straights, and they are doing something weird with the energy, engine-wise, McLaren and Red Bull," he said. “We’ve got to look into it, but nothing that isn't possible to change.

“So we’ll look into that, and once we fix that I think we’ve got a real shot of going back on the top step for the podium," he concluded.

Isn't there a small caveat here that Ferrari was running a slightly more loaded rear wing? Wouldn't that mean if they had run with less df, they would have to sacrifice some performance elsewhere on the track.

[f1316]

Canadian GP will defo need different wing and will be the big test of aero efficiency, mechanical compliance and grip, and energy deployment with the long straight and all the chicanes that need to be attacked with good entry speed and good traction/grunt out of these.

It will be the same setup as Miami for all teams basically, so same rear wing for Ferrari and single-piece beam wing in Canada. Monaco will be typical highest load for everyone of course, but I think we may see a few surprises in Barcelona...

Why do you think this is related to wing level (and hence drag) rather then deployment? Given Leclerc and Fred have both referred to “power strategy” or “hybrid management”, this seems to imply it’s more a question of mapping. Do you think this is just a more convenient public stance? Genuine question, but what they are saying implied that they don’t think it’s the wing level that’s to blame.

Because higher drag is quite obvious when you look at how Miami went and how Imola went in terms of top speeds between Top 3 teams, even if Ferrari Imola upgrade undoubtedly improved their Top Speed by around 1-2kmh in total in my view.

Ok, thanks. I guess my point then is that it’s odd that the team choose to blame something else publicly. There must be a reason.

[yooogurt]

There was no PU issue or boost from Honda and Mercedes, Ferrari had more wing and more drag

But then why is Charles talking about a different PU strategy (energy management)?

[Seanspeed]

There was no PU issue or boost from Honda and Mercedes, Ferrari had more wing and more drag

But then why is Charles talking about a different PU strategy (energy management)?

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before.

[scuderiabrandon]

There was no PU issue or boost from Honda and Mercedes, Ferrari had more wing and more drag

But then why is Charles talking about a different PU strategy (energy management)?

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before. It's unbearable.

1 tenth (race pace & qualifying) between Mclaren Red Bull & Ferrari = clear 3rd best.

Please be real. That's 5degC swing in track temperature, one mistake, one bad pit stop away from having a complete 180 on 1st & 3rd force. Ultimately, we'll go to circuits that will favour us more and vice versa. I can't believe the hissy fit people are throwing, this victim complex needs to stop.

In Miami, we were again a tenth slower than Norris without any major updates, why? Because it was very much a favourable circuit along with favourable conditions. Not to even mention Norris had a 10 lap tyre offset. Mclaren came into Imola saying it will be a strong weekend for them & that's what happened, they had the fastest car. Verstappen lucked out with the tow in Q and having track position is crucial. That's how fine the margins are.

You have to accept that this is how it is going to be for the next two years if we stay on this trajectory.

[yooogurt]

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

But he did say that it was noticed after qualifying, so that implies an analysis of the engineers, no?

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

I've never seen him do that, he honest af.

[ferkan]

There was no PU issue or boost from Honda and Mercedes, Ferrari had more wing and more drag

But then why is Charles talking about a different PU strategy (energy management)?

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before.

No we definitely improved vs RB, but Mclaren jump is almost scary. They went from 6-7 tenths a lap behind to being therebouts. They went from being a pig on straight to one of the fastest.

Their upgrade was serious.

[scuderiabrandon]

But then why is Charles talking about a different PU strategy (energy management)?

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before.

No we definitely improved vs RB, but Mclaren jump is almost scary. They went from 6-7 tenths a lap behind to being therebouts. They went from being a pig on straight to one of the fastest.

Their upgrade was serious.

Their jump isn't scary, please think back to Australia, our strongest weekend, they were right there, I don't remember but I'm sure the difference was again a small as a tenth in race trim.

They've sorted the overheating they were facing in the races before, which is why they've made such leaps in the race and why they were so quick in a cold Suzuka qualifying session and throughout the Chinese GP weekend. They always had a quick one lap car.