2024 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 28 - 30

[fourmula1]

Why aren't you guys posting the Norris-Seb battle where Norris goes over the curb in the same exact situation? Why are you comparing that moment to any other moment anyway? What does some other battle have anything to do with this one? It's just to appease whatever underlying bias we have.

I'm ok if it is chalked up to a racing incident. You cannot put the blame on Norris though.

[venkyhere]

I never really got this idea that Verstappen is like a headless chicken in the same way you would see moments of wildness from Vettel for example. He is the ultimate hard racer and clearly it affects those who try to overtake him, barring Leclerc and probably Hamilton.

- Dad v/s team (Horner)
- Marko (mentor) v/s Horner
- constant questions in media 'when are you leaving' where TotoWolff provides the fodder
- Unexplainable behavior of the car that suddenly loses grip as fuel load comes off
- Botched pit stop that deleted all the hard work that went into creating that 7-8s gap
- Knowledge that the dogfight has to be used v/s new tyres, that too when the car seems to have lost grip alongwith fuel.

The pressure is immense. He is human afterall, no matter what professionalism or training we are talking about, the nut will eventually crack, no matter how hard it is, when all the mitigating circumstances converge together. The consummate professional will suddenly disappear and a petulant child running like headless chicken will appear out of nowhere. He drove like a 17yr old rookie, rather than a 3 time WDC winner. What would he have lost, if he finished P2 ? Just 7 points, which is nothing in the big scheme of things for this year. As I mentioned earlier, Zidane is the closest example I can think of - always seemed to handle pressure very well, until the moment(s) the brain snapped.

This is what makes racing interesting, the human element, no matter how much technology is stuffed into it. Who makes what kind of decisions, when. Otherwise we can have AI bots racing each other - it's far easier than we think - closed circuit, clearly demarcation of tarmac with runoff, very easily identifiable marker points for braking and turning (100m board, structural elements and barriers at specific points) - an image based self driving AI algorithm has a far easier job to do in an F1 race, than what it has to do on a public road in a Tesla. (will anyone even watch such a robot-race ? I guess no one).

Besides totally overblowing both the seriousness and significance of the crash yesterday you have completely missed my point.

He never lost control on Sunday and I don't think he lost control during the 2021 season either. He is totally in control and is happy to push things over the edge in losing situations in a calculated manner. He intimidates every driver on the grid but only one or two can actually race him.

FIA doesn't care for who is in control and who isn't. They have established a common yardstick - "no moving in the braking zone, no reacting to the move of the driver behind in the braking zone, once you have picked your line, stick with it". FIA doesn't want 'intimidation' they dont want psychological tactics in wheel to wheel racing.
It doesn't matter whether this FIA rule carries merit or not, all drivers have signed up to follow this, and they have to.

That was my point. The 'headless chicken' reference was in reference to 'rule adherence' not about 'car control'. If the dogfight yesterday had LEC or HAM in place of NOR, there would have been no touching at all. But that's not the point. The rule was broken by VER and resulted in contact and a DNF.

[basti313]

Oh...I get it so Silverstone 2021...Hamilton was the winner of the shunt...nothing to talk about...get over it. I like your thinking.

Do you have issues with reading?
I am answering to the point where people claim "poor racecraft" or "cracking under pressure" or "headless chicken" to Ver. Yes, same goes to Hamilton and both were the winners. This is mastercraft racecraft if you manage to allow the opponent to crash in a way that is worse to him than for you. Assuming the opposite when the move gives 10 points on your main contender is not very intelligent.
And of course, there is a lot to talk about because it is not fair, but not these nonsense posts about racecraft just shouting out the personal issues.

https://i.redd.it/6mrgslk89r9d1.gif
https://i.redd.it/s71kvlk89r9d1.gif

Nice post. If Norris' would've gone a bit over the curb like Verstappen did against Leclerc, they would not have touched.

or he had more skill on the brakes

Well, I am a bit surprised that he did not even try to maximize the space for T3 by going a bit to the left and not outbreak himself, maximizing the run to T4?
The only chance was to switch behind Ver...there was nothing but another penalty to win on the outside. So I am not sure about the analysis by Peter Windsor...I do not see Nor taking a line matching this analysis although it is the only line that makes sense.

[Hoffman900]

https://i.redd.it/6mrgslk89r9d1.gif
https://i.redd.it/s71kvlk89r9d1.gif

They’re both wrong and both are inexcusable. This is on the FIA

Showing a wrong to justify another wrong is foolish at best.

[RonMexico]

- Dad v/s team (Horner)
- Marko (mentor) v/s Horner
- constant questions in media 'when are you leaving' where TotoWolff provides the fodder
- Unexplainable behavior of the car that suddenly loses grip as fuel load comes off
- Botched pit stop that deleted all the hard work that went into creating that 7-8s gap
- Knowledge that the dogfight has to be used v/s new tyres, that too when the car seems to have lost grip alongwith fuel.

The pressure is immense. He is human afterall, no matter what professionalism or training we are talking about, the nut will eventually crack, no matter how hard it is, when all the mitigating circumstances converge together. The consummate professional will suddenly disappear and a petulant child running like headless chicken will appear out of nowhere. He drove like a 17yr old rookie, rather than a 3 time WDC winner. What would he have lost, if he finished P2 ? Just 7 points, which is nothing in the big scheme of things for this year. As I mentioned earlier, Zidane is the closest example I can think of - always seemed to handle pressure very well, until the moment(s) the brain snapped.

This is what makes racing interesting, the human element, no matter how much technology is stuffed into it. Who makes what kind of decisions, when. Otherwise we can have AI bots racing each other - it's far easier than we think - closed circuit, clearly demarcation of tarmac with runoff, very easily identifiable marker points for braking and turning (100m board, structural elements and barriers at specific points) - an image based self driving AI algorithm has a far easier job to do in an F1 race, than what it has to do on a public road in a Tesla. (will anyone even watch such a robot-race ? I guess no one).

Besides totally overblowing both the seriousness and significance of the crash yesterday you have completely missed my point.

He never lost control on Sunday and I don't think he lost control during the 2021 season either. He is totally in control and is happy to push things over the edge in losing situations in a calculated manner. He intimidates every driver on the grid but only one or two can actually race him.

FIA doesn't care for who is in control and who isn't. They have established a common yardstick - "no moving in the braking zone, no reacting to the move of the driver behind in the braking zone, once you have picked your line, stick with it". FIA doesn't want 'intimidation' they dont want psychological tactics in wheel to wheel racing.
It doesn't matter whether this FIA rule carries merit or not, all drivers have signed up to follow this, and they have to.

That was my point. The 'headless chicken' reference was in reference to 'rule adherence' not about 'car control'. If the dogfight yesterday had LEC or HAM in place of NOR, there would have been no touching at all. But that's not the point. The rule was broken by VER and resulted in contact and a DNF.

Yet he did indimidate his championship rival and won out. Norris had two track limit violations after the last pit stop and received a penalty before the crash. I expect Verstappen is quite content after yesterday's race.

McLaren are making an absolute dogs dinner of this title challenge and Stella sounded borderline desperate after the race. Pouring petrol on the HAM/VER embers from 2021 to mount pressure because his driver just couldn't get it done once again

[Ozan]

https://x.com/F1Techy/status/1807627088 ... dJMIQ&s=19
Clearly explained here. You can not move under braking.

[FW17]

https://i.redd.it/6mrgslk89r9d1.gif
https://i.redd.it/s71kvlk89r9d1.gif

They’re both wrong and both are inexcusable. This is on the FIA

Showing a wrong to justify another wrong is foolish at best.

[FW17]

https://x.com/F1Techy/status/1807627088 ... dJMIQ&s=19
Clearly explained here. You can not move under braking.

Wow the bias

[Just_a_fan]

Glad that atleast one person is following what I meant. But I wouldn't call it 'both are equally to blame'. NOR is not at fault - far from it. He was naive.

If you have room to move from a car approaching you and you don't - what can you expect to happen?

And if the only way to move is off the track, that's OK, is it? Basically saying that the approaching driver can do what he likes and everyone else has to sort it out around him. I.e. Max can do no wrong. Hint: crowding a driver off track like you propose is specifically mentioned in the code as being wrong.

Sorry, but Lando was driving along the track with his wheels at the track's edge. Max made a typically aggressive "you move or we crash" move and then is surprised when contact happens. Some defend him and meanwhile the rest of us are still surprised that people consider his actions acceptable.

[Seanspeed]

Glad that atleast one person is following what I meant. But I wouldn't call it 'both are equally to blame'. NOR is not at fault - far from it. He was naive.

If you have room to move from a car approaching you and you don't - what can you expect to happen?

And if the only way to move is off the track, that's OK, is it? Basically saying that the approaching driver can do what he likes and everyone else has to sort it out around him. I.e. Max can do no wrong. Hint: crowding a driver off track like you propose is specifically mentioned in the code as being wrong.

Sorry, but Lando was driving along the track with his wheels at the track's edge. Max made a typically aggressive "you move or we crash" move and then is surprised when contact happens. Some defend him and meanwhile the rest of us are still surprised that people consider his actions acceptable.

Drivers are constantly pushing each other off-track with 'move or we crash' moves nowadays. It's crazy how much it happens and how much it's tolerated, even though it's clearly supposed to be illegal. So no, this has nothing to do with saying Max can do no wrong specifically. This is something that's happening over the whole grid.

That said, Max was not pushing Norris to any extremes. Norris absolutely had enough room and could have even gone a little bit more over, but decided not to, and then the contact was actually very light between the two. Often such contact results in absolutely nothing, but here, it seemed to have been a lot more consequential, which makes the incident seem worse than it really was.

[FW17]

Glad that atleast one person is following what I meant. But I wouldn't call it 'both are equally to blame'. NOR is not at fault - far from it. He was naive.

If you have room to move from a car approaching you and you don't - what can you expect to happen?

And if the only way to move is off the track, that's OK, is it? Basically saying that the approaching driver can do what he likes and everyone else has to sort it out around him. I.e. Max can do no wrong. Hint: crowding a driver off track like you propose is specifically mentioned in the code as being wrong.

Sorry, but Lando was driving along the track with his wheels at the track's edge. Max made a typically aggressive "you move or we crash" move and then is surprised when contact happens. Some defend him and meanwhile the rest of us are still surprised that people consider his actions acceptable.

If you are in a position to avoid contact and choose not to, what is it called?


Why doesn't the white car crash into the green car?

[Zynerji]

My take on this is a bit rough around the edges, but would fix lots of things.

In Silverstone, when inevitably asked about this, Norris should answer with something like "I'm just going to crash him from now on when he does these things. Moving in the braking zone, slamming the door and pushing off track. Then I'll be happy to celebrate with Oscar at the end of the year with his first WDC."

The complete uproar that would ensue would put EXACTLY the kind of microscope on these behaviors that is need to make the drivers clean them up.

[SiLo]

If you have room to move from a car approaching you and you don't - what can you expect to happen?

And if the only way to move is off the track, that's OK, is it? Basically saying that the approaching driver can do what he likes and everyone else has to sort it out around him. I.e. Max can do no wrong. Hint: crowding a driver off track like you propose is specifically mentioned in the code as being wrong.

Sorry, but Lando was driving along the track with his wheels at the track's edge. Max made a typically aggressive "you move or we crash" move and then is surprised when contact happens. Some defend him and meanwhile the rest of us are still surprised that people consider his actions acceptable.

If you are in a position to avoid contact and choose not to, what is it called?


Why doesn't the white car crash into the green car?

https://d2n9h2wits23hf.cloudfront.net/i ... 2S4d0g8A__

Max was in a position to avoid the collision as well as Norris. But only one of them followed the rules, hence the penalty.

As far as things go, the collision was tame, and likely just a mistake from Max. The moves prior to it were dangerous, and immediately after when he ran Norris into the grass was just plain stupid.

[ab_f1]

My take on this is a bit rough around the edges, but would fix lots of things.

In Silverstone, when inevitably asked about this, Norris should answer with something like "I'm just going to crash him from now on when he does these things. Moving in the braking zone, slamming the door and pushing off track. Then I'll be happy to celebrate with Oscar at the end of the year with his first WDC."

The complete uproar that would ensue would put EXACTLY the kind of microscope on these behaviors that is need to make the drivers clean them up.

This, Pure gold.
McLaren are in unique situation to do this.
As of now F1/FIA have no incentive to deal with this and probably want more of it.
More scrutiny/incidents may provide that incentive.

[Tvetovnato]

My take on this is a bit rough around the edges, but would fix lots of things.

In Silverstone, when inevitably asked about this, Norris should answer with something like "I'm just going to crash him from now on when he does these things. Moving in the braking zone, slamming the door and pushing off track. Then I'll be happy to celebrate with Oscar at the end of the year with his first WDC."

The complete uproar that would ensue would put EXACTLY the kind of microscope on these behaviors that is need to make the drivers clean them up.

It wouldn’t matter unfortunately. Max said blatantly in Brazil 2022 that he knew Hamilton wouldn’t give him his divebombing space, so he sent it knowing they would crash, which happened. All he got was a meaningless penalty once again. The FIA could have sent him to a room and replayed what he said before his eyes, and say that this will mean a race ban if it continues, but they didn’t. Only thing others can do is to not back off from now on, crash him out of the race, and maybe then serious action will be taken when the cost of wrecked cars will be too high.