2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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taperoo2k
taperoo2k
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 17:33

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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f1isgood wrote:
26 Jul 2024, 15:40
taperoo2k wrote:
25 Jul 2024, 14:37
f1isgood wrote:
25 Jul 2024, 13:27


I thought it was just Horner, but it is also Marko and others saying car was the best etc.

Max is also not driving as well as he used to, especially the past few races. Getting general frustration get to you is the easiest way to tank this championship. He should simply accept reality that Red Bull are unlikely to have the best car for majority if not all the races and do what he does best -- remain consistent and keep getting them points every weekend. There's no one better at it than him and if he keeps it like 2021, he will very likely get this title.
Horner and co are in denial that the RB20 isn't anywhere near as good as the RB19. Nor that McLaren have found genuine speed.

Max is still Max. The only difference between this year and last year? He had the best car on the grid, this season he doesn't. So, he hasn't got the speed advantage to overtake easily. One thing he's never really learned to do is to be patient with overtakes. It's always a dive up the inside or an overly ambitious overtake. If he continues as is, he'll start racking up penalties from the stewards.
To address Horner's point: Teams are not stupid. They have all the data. And I am pretty sure Red Bull know where they are weak. And yes while it would help to publicly acknowledge the job Max is doing, I am not sure the dynamics within the team are the same as they used to be a couple of years ago where they acknowledged their shortcomings, ever since the saga.

Verstappen is Verstappen but he is unironically also the maximizer of the results on the grid. You cannot take one race where a divebomb didn't work and use to make a gross generalization. Let's analyze situations on their own merit and not add our own priors that we will never change based on evidence to make a point. The best he could have done is P3 in that race. Maybe he should have settled for P4 but that is not who he is and over a season that seems to be enough to beat everyone on the grid. I can generally criticize many things about Max recently but I don't think making comments like he has never really learnt to be patient with overtakes is by any means a good take.
Verstappen is impatient at times. It's one of the few chinks in his race craft and has cost him points in the past. In 2023 he had the best car on the grid, maybe one of the best ever cars in F1. That allowed him to cruise to multiple victories. This season? He capitalised on the RB20's early form, now he's got swamped by other cars who've picked up the pace. Convergence for these set of regulations has arrived sooner than most expected. It's a game of winning where he can and maximising his points when wins aren't possible alongside finishing ahead of Lando.

The question for Red Bull is will they figure out the RB20's problems quickly or will any fixes have to wait for the RB21? If there is an issue with the design of the suspension (for example)? Not something you can easily fix in season given the cost cap.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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delete
Last edited by AR3-GP on 29 Jul 2024, 00:51, edited 2 times in total.
A lion must kill its prey.

taperoo2k
taperoo2k
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 17:33

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 17:12
Not only was Perez poor but he ruined Max's race essentially. I am surprised the team didn't consider the 1-stop.
They might have considered it, but I think today was about ensuring Max finished ahead of Lando.

Maybe hurt his tyres too much in the dirty air to make that realistic, but so did Russell
Russell made the call to 1 stop. That was a gamble, one RedBull probably didn't want to take. Given they only had 1 new hard tyre for the race.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Delete, reposts
Last edited by AR3-GP on 29 Jul 2024, 07:29, edited 1 time in total.
A lion must kill its prey.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max was stuck behind an illegal Mercedes too :lol:
A lion must kill its prey.

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yuki was not playing ball either

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Lap 16:
Image

Lap 22:
Image


=D>

Max didn't say a word about it from lap 13 to lap 22.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 29 Jul 2024, 07:30, edited 8 times in total.
A lion must kill its prey.

Rikhart
Rikhart
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Joined: 10 Feb 2009, 20:21

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I don't think Verstappen will be competing in this team in the near future, just saying.

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Sergej
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Joined: 09 Apr 2024, 19:00

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mixed feelings about this race, extending the lead over Lando despite the penalty is very good, but it feels like a missed opportunity to gain even more, starting from the penalty itself, which I still consider a mistake to take here, one of the few tracks where win was possible, then the race management with Max stuck in the DRS led by Checo :lol:

the positive things is that Lando keeps making mistakes and this is a hard psychological hit for him, if he starts losing even to Oscar that's a win for Max, on the negative side with that fast Mercedes there will be races where we can lose a ton of points, a scenario Lando-Oscar-Lewis-George-Max is now quite realistic; it'll be a tense season ending

lastly, if I was Max I would jump on the Mercedes train, but maybe now it's too late, seems Toto chose Kimi

PierreW
PierreW
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Joined: 06 Sep 2022, 17:58

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max should stay with Red Bull unless their 2026 motor is a disaster. They are such a good fit. We should believe in Horner to right the ship and tighten the screws. Was Red Bull in full knowledge of the DRS reduction when they choose to take the penalty here?

It was hard to overtake here. Norris couldn't put a single attack on Max, and Hamilton couldn't on Russel despite being 0.6-0.7s faster per lap.

CjC
CjC
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sergej wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 19:37
mixed feelings about this race, extending the lead over Lando despite the penalty is very good, but it feels like a missed opportunity to gain even more, starting from the penalty itself, which I still consider a mistake to take here, one of the few tracks where win was possible, then the race management with Max stuck in the DRS led by Checo :lol:

the positive things is that Lando keeps making mistakes and this is a hard psychological hit for him, if he starts losing even to Oscar that's a win for Max, on the negative side with that fast Mercedes there will be races where we can lose a ton of points, a scenario Lando-Oscar-Lewis-George-Max is now quite realistic; it'll be a tense season ending

lastly, if I was Max I would jump on the Mercedes train, but maybe now it's too late, seems Toto chose Kimi
Underweight train =P~ =P~
Just a fan's point of view

Dunlay
Dunlay
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Joined: 10 Mar 2024, 15:23

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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What was that smokescreen qualifying performance from Red Bull? What happened to the pace in the race? Has the team spoken about what happened, where did the pace go?

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Sergej
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Joined: 09 Apr 2024, 19:00

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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PierreW wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 19:46
Max should stay with Red Bull unless their 2026 motor is a disaster. They are such a good fit. We should believe in Horner to right the ship and tighten the screws. Was Red Bull in full knowledge of the DRS reduction when they choose to take the penalty here?

It was hard to overtake here. Norris couldn't put a single attack on Max, and Hamilton couldn't on Russel despite being 0.6-0.7s faster per lap.
I have a feeling they made an overconfidence mistake by:
1 thinking they would have recovered as easily as 22/23
2 not considering that this could have been one of the very few remaining races where win is possible

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 19:14
Lap 16:
https://i.postimg.cc/pLpr3Gsx/image.png

Lap 22:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0r4xPsf/image.png


=D>

Max didn't say a word about it from lap 13 to lap 22. I don't even think Max cared anymore today. After trying to make a difference in Hungary, he was criticized. Now today they managed the race so badly and he was just going to let them wallow in it :lol: :lol:

This is why drivers have to speak up during the races. It makes Red Bull stronger and it gives the team clarity. Perez should have been moved. Today was another show of weakness from Red Bull and Max is done compensating for the car and for Perez only for them to spit in his face like this. As he said at the end, he was happy to beat Norris and didn't say much about anything else :lol:

Sure Max, you were 100% happy today to go from P11 to P5. Happy to beat 3 midfield cars, and Perez and Sainz. An 100% unserious remark from Max :lol: :lol:
I think that's very harsh on the team. There was Russell in between them, what were they supposed to do? After russell overtook Perez they pitted him immediately to get him out of Max's way. Later when Max caught him again he moved aside within half a lap. Sometimes races pan up the way they do, engine penalty and sub-optimal dry pace killed this race, not perez in particular.

Pit stops should have been faster I agree. In general team is not operating on 2022-2023 levels.

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Dunlay wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 19:52
What was that smokescreen qualifying performance from Red Bull? What happened to the pace in the race? Has the team spoken about what happened, where did the pace go?
Yeah, really strange to just drop off like that. They lost something like 0,5s of relative performance from Q to race. Maybe we also saw some Max magic yesterday as per usual.