2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

He has helped him this year. Both Zak Brown and Lando have both said this.

Hungary was an example where he helped protect Landos position and instead nearly lost his own. It's not lost on me that Lando made a point. Wouldn't surprise me if this was one made back.

[mwillems]

Still no plans to swap drivers if Oscar is in front.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24090602

Stella:
"I think without Leclerc, Lando and Oscar would have been close enough to each other so that we could have played with other variables, which doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to swap positions now, because I don't think that's part of our agreements, or at least was. Because it seems a little brutal to ask a driver who is going to win a race to swap positions on the track. But we'll review all these things in the next races. And if we come to the conclusion that it's right to swap positions, then we'll do it."

[Jurgen von Diaz]

You can tell that this team hasn't been in a championship battle with its current leaders. Too much emotions. Or do they just fear Mark Webber if they take Oscar's win? Could there be some kind of clauses?

[Ben1980]

Still no plans to swap drivers if Oscar is in front.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24090602

Stella:
"I think without Leclerc, Lando and Oscar would have been close enough to each other so that we could have played with other variables, which doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to swap positions now, because I don't think that's part of our agreements, or at least was. Because it seems a little brutal to ask a driver who is going to win a race to swap positions on the track. But we'll review all these things in the next races. And if we come to the conclusion that it's right to swap positions, then we'll do it."

That says swapping for a win. And I understand that, but swapping 2nd and 3rd isn't the same, but that quote doesn't say they won't swap.

But, its not really the swapping, I would expect them to be telling them to be more cautious on lap 1, and I wouldn't expect any similar situations. That will be based in team first.

[mwillems]

Still no plans to swap drivers if Oscar is in front.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24090602

Stella:
"I think without Leclerc, Lando and Oscar would have been close enough to each other so that we could have played with other variables, which doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to swap positions now, because I don't think that's part of our agreements, or at least was. Because it seems a little brutal to ask a driver who is going to win a race to swap positions on the track. But we'll review all these things in the next races. And if we come to the conclusion that it's right to swap positions, then we'll do it."

That says swapping for a win. And I understand that, but swapping 2nd and 3rd isn't the same, but that quote doesn't say they won't swap.

But, its not really the swapping, I would expect them to be telling them to be more cautious on lap 1, and I wouldn't expect any similar situations. That will be based in team first.

True, I wasn't clear on that. But at the same time the article seems to suggest that when not 1st and 2nd it isn't a consideration.

Still, there will be a change, but I'm glad it won't be too severe.

[Ben1980]

Still no plans to swap drivers if Oscar is in front.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24090602

Stella:
"I think without Leclerc, Lando and Oscar would have been close enough to each other so that we could have played with other variables, which doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to swap positions now, because I don't think that's part of our agreements, or at least was. Because it seems a little brutal to ask a driver who is going to win a race to swap positions on the track. But we'll review all these things in the next races. And if we come to the conclusion that it's right to swap positions, then we'll do it."

That says swapping for a win. And I understand that, but swapping 2nd and 3rd isn't the same, but that quote doesn't say they won't swap.

But, its not really the swapping, I would expect them to be telling them to be more cautious on lap 1, and I wouldn't expect any similar situations. That will be based in team first.

True, I wasn't clear on that. But at the same time the article seems to suggest that when not 1st and 2nd it isn't a consideration.

Still, there will be a change, but I'm glad it won't be too severe.

Just think they will play it race by race. Which is sensible. I also don't think it will be something that can happen all the time. Still expect tge team to be challenged by other drivers, so it's unlikely they cruise off and make it all straight forward.

I think, it will be a case of be prepared for an order, but put the team first. ( that is what I think was their takeaway from Monza)

[mwillems]

Even Taylor Swift's European tour wasn't as good as this.

[Henri]

Still no plans to swap drivers if Oscar is in front.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24090602

Stella:
"I think without Leclerc, Lando and Oscar would have been close enough to each other so that we could have played with other variables, which doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to swap positions now, because I don't think that's part of our agreements, or at least was. Because it seems a little brutal to ask a driver who is going to win a race to swap positions on the track. But we'll review all these things in the next races. And if we come to the conclusion that it's right to swap positions, then we'll do it."

Oscar is the hungry young lion and norris the old alpha.. let them fight and show who has the rights to be number 1

[PapayaFan481]

Good grief this thread has descending into mostly a argument about which of our 2 incredibly talented and exciting drivers is the better, or worst.

Can we all please just take a minute to look at where we are compared to even 2 years ago. Stop the in fighting and accept that both drivers are potential future champions and this is an exciting time to be a McLaren fan after 25 years without a WCC and 16 years without a WDC.

Maybe there should be a separate thread for driver arguments.....

[mwillems]

It's not about that at all. It's about whether Lando deserves certain status within the team and the benefits that come with it.

[Ben1980]

It's not about that at all. It's about whether Lando deserves certain status within the team and the benefits that come with it.

This is where it all becomes a bit nuanced. Should Lando be the number 1 driver, no. It's not how the team, currently operates. Should they do what they can do to help him win a title, yes. Which I think should be obvious.

Issue going forward is, if both drivers are so evenly matched, and I wouldn't expect that to change, will having them as joint team leaders make it harder to win a drivers title.

Based on all recent title winners, the answer is probably yes. Wins are mainly by lead drivers, apart from Rosberg.

But..Ferrari will have joint lead drivers next year, and Merc will have 2x number two drivers.

Which probably means Verstappen wins next year by my own calculations.

[geogate]

but what does "do what they can to help him win a title" actually mean.
So far as I am aware, through the history of Mclaren, equal status drivers means that it requires an agreement with the team and both drivers before one of they will act in a supporting roll to the other. That was certainly the situation with DC and Mika - exactly what is was between Hamilton and Alonso Im not sure in 2007 as it was Hamiltons rookie season ... but given events on the track one has to assume that was the case there too.
So the question becomes, what will Oscar do. In his situation, I wouldn't be moving over for Norris with 8 races to go - that's a 1/3rd of a season where he takes on a no 2 status - and that becomes a hard mentality to change within the team.
What Norris did in Hungary wont have help the trust between them either. Oscar was pretty pissed looking at him after race

[PapayaFan481]

It's not about that at all. It's about whether Lando deserves certain status within the team and the benefits that come with it.

That is what it should be about and for some posters it is what it is about, however there are literally pages of the same handful of people having the same circular argument. It's spoiling the forum!!

[PapayaFan481]

but what does "do what they can to help him win a title" actually mean.
So far as I am aware, through the history of Mclaren, equal status drivers means that it requires an agreement with the team and both drivers before one of they will act in a supporting roll to the other. That was certainly the situation with DC and Mika - exactly what is was between Hamilton and Alonso Im not sure in 2007 as it was Hamiltons rookie season ... but given events on the track one has to assume that was the case there too.
So the question becomes, what will Oscar do. In his situation, I wouldn't be moving over for Norris with 8 races to go - that's a 1/3rd of a season where he takes on a no 2 status - and that becomes a hard mentality to change within the team.
What Norris did in Hungary wont have help the trust between them either. Oscar was pretty pissed looking at him after race

I think Stella has to sit down with Oscar and Webber and look at the cold hard facts. The chances of Lando winning the WDC are slim, but it is doable. The chances of Oscar winning it this year are, frankly, near zero.

Oscar should take a supporting role for the remainder of this season and in return he knows the team will give him the same service if positions are reversed in the future, which there is a good chance they might be.

F1 is first and foremost a team sport and while teams might like to pretend the WCC matters, for the average or casual viewer it is the WDC that counts.

There is absolutely no guarantee that McLaren are in the title hunt next season, though I hope they are, so it is only common sense to give it everything this season.

And reading between the lines of statements made by the team and Oscar, I think that is what is going to happen.

[BMMR61]

Hoping most of the heat has gone out of this little exchange......

My honest-to-God statement is I am a big fan of both our drivers and everything about the team, except the strategist(s) who really suck. They have cost McLaren more than Lando's mistakes. Lando has made quite a few mistakes and I'm not talking about his silly admissions he could have been on pole etc. He has had a narrow superiority in qualifying that the accumulated time differences can show, run most cases the difference between the two has been of the order of 0.1.

Oscar has shown flashes of pace from the beginning but is now gaining these flashes more often. Where he is clearly superior to Lando is in mind control and accuracy of race craft, especially overtaking, where he is one of the best on the grid. There are still a number here who remain unconvinced by him which I find completely extraordinary, but there you go. He of the current grid is the natural successor to Max in my opinion with Charles and Lando next closest. When you have two of the most exciting drivers in your team and you're no longer fighting for merely 4ths and 5ths there will be tension. Andrea is the right sort of level head to keep this tension as controlled as is possible. The tension works in both directions and using the bluntest of team orders at this early stage of the season is a recipe for breakdown of the team.