2024 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, Oct 25 - 27

[basti313]

Even if Verstappen was ahead at apex (as an attacker) he is not allowed to force the other driver off the track.

No. That is called "outbraking". You go to the inside, brake late and force your car ahead, as you block the line for the outside car.
There is and will never be a rule forbidding this. And this is what the stewards write with their "racing room" explanation.
The only issue was he was too fast and did not make the corner. Usually a slam dunk 5s...but again, I am very happy with 10s on this, I just hope that the same is not again 5s next week.

That much was clear in Austin where other drivers got the penalty when they dived on the inside when attacking.

No. They draw a very solid line on the apex thing.

[FittingMechanics]

Even if Verstappen was ahead at apex (as an attacker) he is not allowed to force the other driver off the track.

No. That is called "outbraking". You go to the inside, brake late and force your car ahead, as you block the line for the outside car.
There is and will never be a rule forbidding this. And this is what the stewards write with their "racing room" explanation.
The only issue was he was too fast and did not make the corner. Usually a slam dunk 5s...but again, I am very happy with 10s on this, I just hope that the same is not again 5s next week.

You are wrong.

From the document 65 from Austin, decision on George Russel.

Fact Forcing car 77 off the track at turn 12.
Infringement Breach of Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 2 b) of the International Sporting Code.

Decision 5 second time penalty.
Reason The Stewards reviewed positioning/marshalling system data and in-car video
evidence.
The Driving Standard Guidelines provide that when overtaking on the inside the driver
must not force the other car off the track and must leave a fair and acceptable width
for the car being overtaken. This did not occur on this occasion.
However in mitigation, a 5 second penalty is imposed instead of the standard 10
second penalty because the Stewards determine that the forcing off track was not
deliberate, and the driver of Car 63 was in control of the car at all times.

So, to make it simple. The rule in Austin (and probably here was).

1. If you are attacker on inside you must leave space for the defender on the outside. (VER didn't do this in Mexico on T7/T8)
2. If you are defender on the inside ahead at apex, you don't have to leave space for the attacker on the outside (VER in Austin)

The fact that they just used "gained a lasting advantage" for T7 is just laziness. VER did both, he forced NOR off and gained a lasting advantage by going off track. My point is that even if he stayed on track he wouldn't be allowed to force NOR off because VER was the attacker.

[Seanspeed]

Another race proving we simply need a rule that you're not allowed to force another driver that's alongside you off-track, for any reason whatsoever. Drivers aren't even trying to race cleanly anymore and it's just making things ugly and unfair. Allowing these stipulations for when it's ok to run another driver off-track is so ridiculous and unneeded.

[FittingMechanics]

Another race proving we simply need a rule that you're not allowed to force another driver that's alongside you off-track, for any reason whatsoever. Drivers aren't even trying to race cleanly anymore and it's just making things ugly and unfair. Allowing these stipulations for when it's ok to run another driver off-track is so ridiculous and unneeded.

Completely agreed. We want side by side racing, why is there a stipulation that makes it legal to force a driver off? As people usually say, if the white line was the wall no one would be forcing other driver off because both would crash.

Well, all except Max against Lando that is. He wouldn't mind for them both to crash into a wall.

[SiLo]

I think the harsher penalties are warranted, but it might have been related to whatever discussion the FIA had with the drivers on this specific topic. The stewards probably wanted to make a point that they had literally just had a meeting about exactly this behaviour, and haven't had time to update the rules to combat it.

I think the more egregious stewarding was around Perez, Lawson and Stroll.

[fourmula1]

Another race proving we simply need a rule that you're not allowed to force another driver that's alongside you off-track, for any reason whatsoever. Drivers aren't even trying to race cleanly anymore and it's just making things ugly and unfair. Allowing these stipulations for when it's ok to run another driver off-track is so ridiculous and unneeded.

Completely agreed. We want side by side racing, why is there a stipulation that makes it legal to force a driver off? As people usually say, if the white line was the wall no one would be forcing other driver off because both would crash.

Well, all except Max against Lando that is. He wouldn't mind for them both to crash into a wall.

Yup to everything, but “along side” definition will become the thing.

Also, walls alone wont change anything, instead of going off the outside driver will just back out so as not to crash out.

I say harsher penalties for forcing drivers off/not leaving space. The racing is so much better this way.

[langedweil]

1st pen Ver remained on track, forced a driver offtrack, which in turn held his placeby going to the grass ..

[DDopey]

So how would their be ruled if Max would not reach the apex first, took the corner with enough width on the outside, but the other car would while being at the apex first overshoot the corner ? Is that then gaining an advantage, or was the overtake already done ? If it is gaining an advantage then I see no need to change the rules.

[pantherxxx]

Apparently two stewards for the Mexican Grand Prix were Johnny Herbert and Tim Mayer (son of McLaren co-founder Teddy Mayer).

Do you remember that in 2021 they wanted to remove one of the stewards because he had a Honda dealership? Now British and Mclaren-linked stewards are punishing Max.

Yes Max deserved a penalty maybe 5 seconds or 10 in total. Not 20.

[SharkY]

Apparently two stewards for the Mexican Grand Prix were Johnny Herbert and Tim Mayer (son of McLaren co-founder Teddy Mayer).

Well, in US a British steward punished Lando.
Also, in Mexico there were in total 4 stewards, with a French and a Mexican among them. Apparently they did not disagree.
What is your way out this situation? Exclude stewards from the same nationalities as the drivers? Hardly doable.

Do you remember that in 2021 they wanted to remove one of the stewards because he had a Honda dealership? Now British and Mclaren-linked stewards are punishing Max.

Did it actually happen, though? Was he sacked?

Yes Max deserved a penalty maybe 5 seconds or 10 in total. Not 20.

You can disagree with it, as stewards' decisions are often subjective, so they are prone to incite quarrels. However, as you can see here, many people agree with it (myself included, even though I'd have reduced it to 5+10, but I'm not against 20).

[stephen]

Another race where Red Bull was much slower in the race than qualifying.

[Quantum]

Another race where Red Bull was much slower in the race than qualifying.

2 races in a row.

Almost like something happened....

[Vettel165]

Imagine if this heavy rain with a front comes down on sunday, which is now predicted for next monday or tuesday. They may as well cancel the race, you never know with this weather in Brasil. For now looking dry mostly.

[AR3-GP]

Another race where Red Bull was much slower in the race than qualifying.

2 races in a row.

Almost like something happened....

They were much slower in the race than qualifying before COTA. Do people still pay attention?

What's curious is the collapse of Mercedes since the summer break. From winning 3 out of 4 and brilliant race pace, to not even troubling the podium. That needs more scrutiny. The upgrade excuse is bogus. Mercedes found something and it looks like they've had it taken away by the regulators.

[organic]

Another race where Red Bull was much slower in the race than qualifying.

2 races in a row.

Almost like something happened....

They were much slower in the race than qualifying before COTA. Do people still pay attention?

What's curious is the collapse of Mercedes since the summer break. From winning 3 out of 4 and brilliant race pace, to not even troubling the podium. That needs more scrutiny. The upgrade excuse is bogus. Mercedes found something and it looks like they've had it taken away by the regulators.

I think it's just that we had a run of cold/wet/mixed races on tracks where efficiency is important. That's the only condition where they've been competitive all season and their wins came in those conditions