2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[mstar]

Will a push-rod change the dynamics of the car? i mean make it more responsive front end (turning) / better ride height control etc? or is this purely an aero decision to change?

[zeroday]

Will a push-rod change the dynamics of the car? i mean make it more responsive front end (turning) / better ride height control etc? or is this purely an aero decision to change?

Actually, FER is switching to pull-rod for the front, not push-rod (which is what they had for 2024). So both the front and back are pull-rod. I believe RBR and MCL use pull-rod front. Makes servicing the front more difficult vs push-rod.

Some notables:

• It does make the front-end more responsive which is what both HAM and LEC like.
• Pull-rod configuration improves the car's aerodynamic and dynamic performance.
• They are hoping to addresses issues with energy distribution on the front tires.
• Reduce overheating.
• Improve ground clearance and front-end precision.

Other things that are expected to change for their 2025 challenger:

• The car's wheelbase is expected to be adjusted to create a more advanced center of pressure.
• The side panels are expected to be moved back to combat air turbulence.
• The floor design is expected to be improved to optimize load distribution and center of pressure.
• The gearbox is expected to be smaller/shortened.
• Seat position shifted further back -- improves center of gravity and something HAM has always preferred.

My concern is how stable the backend will be. With pull-rod, iirc, it makes the anti-squat/anti-dive more stiff allowing for an even lower floor (more downforce). HAM relies on getting feedback from the car where the weight of the car shifts to the front in corners and he uses that to better handle a slippery rear so it doesnt oversteer -- he brakes the latest in F1 but needs that feedback -- so i would think pull-rod makes it more difficult to get that feedback he needs. But HAM is famous for being able to adapt to cars ONLY if the car is consistently predictable. MER cars for the last few years, especially 2024, would do one thing at a corner and on another pass would do something totally different making it hard for HAM to adapt & predict the car's idiosyncracies. For whatever reason though in cold weather MER's 2024 car would become predictable and that was when you noticed HAM would essentially dominate the grand prix.

[mstar]

thanks for the explanation zeroday!

[Emag]

It's funny because when Ferrari broke the norm in 2012, the consensus was that the push-rod suspension actually had superior aero-benefits, whereas pullrod gave you a better CoG in exchange for some interference in aero.

I don't remember that being backed by any technical individual from the paddock though and to be fair, we're a couple of generations past now. Aero requirements are different on these cars.

[BassVirolla]

Pull rod eliminates buckling of the rod, getting a more stable platform.

Also, pull rod can go away with a much lighter rod than push rod (in fact, it works more like a cable in tension) and this generation of cars are heavy. Pull rod lowers the CG and allows for lighter elements (far front from the CG, reducing the polar moment).

Traditionally, push rod at front was better aerodinamically, but this generation of cars really suffer from weight and from ride height control, and I can see the pull rod giving benefits in both matters.

[scuderiabrandon]

Will a push-rod change the dynamics of the car? i mean make it more responsive front end (turning) / better ride height control etc? or is this purely an aero decision to change?

Actually, FER is switching to pull-rod for the front, not push-rod (which is what they had for 2024). So both the front and back are pull-rod. I believe RBR and MCL use pull-rod front. Makes servicing the front more difficult vs push-rod.

Some notables:

• It does make the front-end more responsive which is what both HAM and LEC like.
• Pull-rod configuration improves the car's aerodynamic and dynamic performance.
• They are hoping to addresses issues with energy distribution on the front tires.
• Reduce overheating.
• Improve ground clearance and front-end precision.

Other things that are expected to change for their 2025 challenger:

• The car's wheelbase is expected to be adjusted to create a more advanced center of pressure.
• The side panels are expected to be moved back to combat air turbulence.
• The floor design is expected to be improved to optimize load distribution and center of pressure.
• The gearbox is expected to be smaller/shortened.
• Seat position shifted further back -- improves center of gravity and something HAM has always preferred.

My concern is how stable the backend will be. With pull-rod, iirc, it makes the anti-squat/anti-dive more stiff allowing for an even lower floor (more downforce). HAM relies on getting feedback from the car where the weight of the car shifts to the front in corners and he uses that to better handle a slippery rear so it doesnt oversteer -- he brakes the latest in F1 but needs that feedback -- so i would think pull-rod makes it more difficult to get that feedback he needs. But HAM is famous for being able to adapt to cars ONLY if the car is consistently predictable. MER cars for the last few years, especially 2024, would do one thing at a corner and on another pass would do something totally different making it hard for HAM to adapt & predict the car's idiosyncracies. For whatever reason though in cold weather MER's 2024 car would become predictable and that was when you noticed HAM would essentially dominate the grand prix.

Some notables:

• It does make the front-end more responsive which is what both HAM and LEC like.
• Pull-rod configuration improves the car's aerodynamic and dynamic performance.
• They are hoping to addresses issues with energy distribution on the front tires.
• Reduce overheating.
• Improve ground clearance and front-end precision.

All those benefits yet the grid is still so divisive over it, and has been for decades? Maybe the divisiveness underneath your reply can convince you it is not what you made it out to be?

In reality, it's a small optimization made in the name of aerodynamics. More likely that than anything else. Maybe a slight weight reduction with a pull rod not needing to fight compression/buckling forces. Moving the suspension assembly for a pull rod lowers the CoG ~0.4% if we assume the assembly is 10 kilos, moves a distance of 100 mm, and the total weight of the object is 800 kilos. You've lowered the CoG by 1.25 mm. Again, not changing the world by doing that, I could be wrong though.

The car's wheelbase is expected to be adjusted to create a more advanced center of pressure.

I can assure you all the cars are at the maximum allowed wheelbase length. The longer the car, the more surface area you have to work with. The only team to run a shorter wheelbase in this current generation has been Sauber back in 2022. That's been rectified since 2023.

The side panels are expected to be moved back to combat air turbulence.

What does this even mean?

Reduce overheating.

The 24 car struggled to generate heat. In fact, they need to be trying to do the opposite of reducing overheating.

With pull-rod, iirc, it makes the anti-squat/anti-dive more stiff allowing for an even lower floor

There is no direct correlation between a pull/push rod suspension and the squat/dive characteristics. That is controlled by the geometry of the suspension.

HAM relies on getting feedback from the car where the weight of the car shifts to the front in corners

Anti-dive does not stop weight transfer, we'd be defying physics otherwise, it just changes the compression characteristics of the front suspension. These cars run stiff & a lot of anti-dive because they need to stay in a certain ride height window to perform optimally. Unfortunately, if what you are saying is to be the case, it is just something that the drivers has to deal with. If they can't, it will show.

But HAM is famous for being able to adapt to cars ONLY if the car is consistently predictable

Again, it is inherently a problem with this generation of car. They are massively unpredictable.

For whatever reason though, in cold weather MER's 2024 car would become predictable and that was when you noticed HAM would essentially dominate the grand prix.

That is 100% down to tyres. Tyres changes year to year, teams only get a few test per year, and they can't really be doing meaningful tests, a lot of the data they get is through driver-feedback, during those tests. So there is no guarantee we get it right this season.


Driving a Ferrari instead of a Mercedes is not going to change Hamilton life from a performance point of view, directly. There are a lot of issues with these cars in general, which he'll probably find is the case at Ferrari as well. We've seen multiple teams run into the same godforsaken issues time after time. We're all hoping that the move to Ferrari fires him up again, because Ferrari needs 2 drivers to deliver when they are looking to challenge for both titles. Maybe if he understood that these cars do do the silly things (because they are ---) he'd be more willing to try different things. Ferrari switching to a pull-rod, is 1- no going to fix all the car's issues, 2- not be a change in the name of Lewis or Charles or Jesus. That is done because some computer or person with the know-how is telling them it's a better approach. That has been decided almost a year ago, I'd say.

[Henri]

Will a push-rod change the dynamics of the car? i mean make it more responsive front end (turning) / better ride height control etc? or is this purely an aero decision to change?

Actually, FER is switching to pull-rod for the front, not push-rod (which is what they had for 2024). So both the front and back are pull-rod. I believe RBR and MCL use pull-rod front. Makes servicing the front more difficult vs push-rod.

Some notables:

• It does make the front-end more responsive which is what both HAM and LEC like.
• Pull-rod configuration improves the car's aerodynamic and dynamic performance.
• They are hoping to addresses issues with energy distribution on the front tires.
• Reduce overheating.
• Improve ground clearance and front-end precision.

Other things that are expected to change for their 2025 challenger:

• The car's wheelbase is expected to be adjusted to create a more advanced center of pressure.
• The side panels are expected to be moved back to combat air turbulence.
• The floor design is expected to be improved to optimize load distribution and center of pressure.
• The gearbox is expected to be smaller/shortened.
• Seat position shifted further back -- improves center of gravity and something HAM has always preferred.

My concern is how stable the backend will be. With pull-rod, iirc, it makes the anti-squat/anti-dive more stiff allowing for an even lower floor (more downforce). HAM relies on getting feedback from the car where the weight of the car shifts to the front in corners and he uses that to better handle a slippery rear so it doesnt oversteer -- he brakes the latest in F1 but needs that feedback -- so i would think pull-rod makes it more difficult to get that feedback he needs. But HAM is famous for being able to adapt to cars ONLY if the car is consistently predictable. MER cars for the last few years, especially 2024, would do one thing at a corner and on another pass would do something totally different making it hard for HAM to adapt & predict the car's idiosyncracies. For whatever reason though in cold weather MER's 2024 car would become predictable and that was when you noticed HAM would essentially dominate the grand prix.

Some notables:

• It does make the front-end more responsive which is what both HAM and LEC like.
• Pull-rod configuration improves the car's aerodynamic and dynamic performance.
• They are hoping to addresses issues with energy distribution on the front tires.
• Reduce overheating.
• Improve ground clearance and front-end precision.

All those benefits yet the grid is still so divisive over it, and has been for decades? Maybe the divisiveness underneath your reply can convince you it is not what you made it out to be?

In reality, it's a small optimization made in the name of aerodynamics. More likely that than anything else. Maybe a slight weight reduction with a pull rod not needing to fight compression/buckling forces. Moving the suspension assembly for a pull rod lowers the CoG ~0.4% if we assume the assembly is 10 kilos, moves a distance of 100 mm, and the total weight of the object is 800 kilos. You've lowered the CoG by 1.25 mm. Again, not changing the world by doing that, I could be wrong though.

The car's wheelbase is expected to be adjusted to create a more advanced center of pressure.

I can assure you all the cars are at the maximum allowed wheelbase length. The longer the car, the more surface area you have to work with. The only team to run a shorter wheelbase in this current generation has been Sauber back in 2022. That's been rectified since 2023.

The side panels are expected to be moved back to combat air turbulence.

What does this even mean?

Reduce overheating.

The 24 car struggled to generate heat. In fact, they need to be trying to do the opposite of reducing overheating.

With pull-rod, iirc, it makes the anti-squat/anti-dive more stiff allowing for an even lower floor

There is no direct correlation between a pull/push rod suspension and the squat/dive characteristics. That is controlled by the geometry of the suspension.

HAM relies on getting feedback from the car where the weight of the car shifts to the front in corners

Anti-dive does not stop weight transfer, we'd be defying physics otherwise, it just changes the compression characteristics of the front suspension. These cars run stiff & a lot of anti-dive because they need to stay in a certain ride height window to perform optimally. Unfortunately, if what you are saying is to be the case, it is just something that the drivers has to deal with. If they can't, it will show.

But HAM is famous for being able to adapt to cars ONLY if the car is consistently predictable

Again, it is inherently a problem with this generation of car. They are massively unpredictable.

For whatever reason though, in cold weather MER's 2024 car would become predictable and that was when you noticed HAM would essentially dominate the grand prix.

That is 100% down to tyres. Tyres changes year to year, teams only get a few test per year, and they can't really be doing meaningful tests, a lot of the data they get is through driver-feedback, during those tests. So there is no guarantee we get it right this season.


Driving a Ferrari instead of a Mercedes is not going to change Hamilton life from a performance point of view, directly. There are a lot of issues with these cars in general, which he'll probably find is the case at Ferrari as well. We've seen multiple teams run into the same godforsaken issues time after time. We're all hoping that the move to Ferrari fires him up again, because Ferrari needs 2 drivers to deliver when they are looking to challenge for both titles. Maybe if he understood that these cars do do the silly things (because they are ---) he'd be more willing to try different things. Ferrari switching to a pull-rod, is 1- no going to fix all the car's issues, 2- not be a change in the name of Lewis or Charles or Jesus. That is done because some computer or person with the know-how is telling them it's a better approach. That has been decided almost a year ago, I'd say.

Difference Mercedes always had a weaker floor compared to ferrari and redbull.

[Vanja #66]

It's funny because when Ferrari broke the norm in 2012, the consensus was that the push-rod suspension actually had superior aero-benefits, whereas pullrod gave you a better CoG in exchange for some interference in aero.

I don't remember that being backed by any technical individual from the paddock though and to be fair, we're a couple of generations past now. Aero requirements are different on these cars.

On 2009-2016 cars, and especially 2014-2016 cars, the Y250 vortex was one of the most important flow structures on the car. On 2017-2021 cars it was still important, but also massively helped by barge boards. Due to the strength of the Y250, it had a strong interaction with front suspension, in which case it was better to avoid the clash with 3 arms and keep the clash to bottom 2 arms only. Barge boards and Y250 helped to control the front tyre wake and it was better to keep the Y250 flow as clean as possible, instead of forcing a small additional amount of outwash with pull rod arms

Today, there are no barge boards and no Y250 vortex and teams need every help they can get with generating downwash and outwash with front suspension. Outwash generation will probably become even more important in 2026 and later, since the floor fence will force the turbulent wake in and towards the floor, instead of out

[hchbs_1]

reguarding the rumor of a shorter gearbox and a movement of the cockpit backwards, in my mind the teams that have done such things over the last 2 seasons have done this via a push-rod in the rear suspension. anyone got any rumors saying weather or not the rear suspension is changing layout or only being smaller?

[deadhead]

[taperoo2k]

Worth noting - SF24 will be driven during Pirelli test for 2026 tyres with different width than current tyres

It will at least give him a run in the '24 car. Might not be representative, but it's better than only getting a run in the '23 car using non race tyres.

Lewis doesn’t need it anyway. The official winter test should be more than enough for a driver of his calibre and experience to get up to speed.

Ferrari are being meticulous in preparing Lewis for the season ahead. Lewis will probably want all the time he can get in whichever cars Ferrari decide to run. It's all about getting him embedded into the team and learning the intricacies of the Power Unit, Ferrari systems and how it all links together in different scenarios. Sure, you can do that on a simulator, but nothing beats the real thing.

[Luscion]

Ferrari's 2025 race suits

[bananapeel23]

Ferrari's 2025 race suits



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GiTlTBLWIAA ... =4096x4096

Lewis looks right at home in red. Also I wonder how much IBM is spending for such a prominent sponsor placement. I thought IBM was pretty much a failing company, but looking at their stock I couldn't be more wrong.

[ScuderiaLeo]

Spotted on the corners of Leclerc's helmet

Lewis looks right at home in red. Also I wonder how much IBM is spending for such a prominent sponsor placement. I thought IBM was pretty much a failing company, but looking at their stock I couldn't be more wrong.

I used to work for IBM. Definitely not a failing company, though I can see why it would look like that from the outside

[djos]

Spotted on the corners of Leclerc's helmet

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GiTvfY6WQAA ... name=small

Lewis looks right at home in red. Also I wonder how much IBM is spending for such a prominent sponsor placement. I thought IBM was pretty much a failing company, but looking at their stock I couldn't be more wrong.

I used to work for IBM. Definitely not a failing company, though I can see why it would look like that from the outside

Same here. IBM has become very good at spinning off or selling, business units that are no longer profitable (eg PCs to Lenovo, printers to Lexmark etc). The services business is huge, and IBM mainframes dominate the finance and insurance industries still.