Flexiwings 2025

[haza]

None of this matters until Melbourne regardless of any flexi wings that may or may not have been used In testing if teams are found to be taking the piss so to speak with wing flex the fia will deal with it.
Pierre wache’s comments about McLaren and Ferrari potentially using mini drs is nothing new teams do this year after year as far as I could tell every time the Ferrari or McLaren rear facing onboard came on there wings seem to act normal there was no sight of any twisting or opening a gap Mercedes was the only one to catch my eye but again it’s testing an australias a whole different debate

[organic]

In addition to the new stricter tests outlined in TD018, the FIA has reportedly recently informed teams there will be additional methods to prevent any circumventing of the rules

Essentially new rearwards facing cameras to monitor specifically the flex both of rear wing and also beamwing

https://autoracer.it/it/esclusiva-ali-f ... tralia-fia

the FIA's technical office has sent the teams an official request for new measures for the visual control of the rear wings starting from Australia , to monitor the deformation of the rear wings with their own instruments. The positioning of the cameras and related visual references to be affixed (stickers) is reportedly being deliberated, as already happened last year for some races starting from the Belgian GP.

Although the time available to intervene is short - between decisions to be made, proposed, validated and made official - it is the FIA's prerogative to put the new provision on monitoring flexures into practice already in Australia. Cameras on the cars, therefore additional to those already present, which have the specific task of aiming at the rear wing and verifying any flexure movement to which they may be subject. The aim is clearly to verify whether the mini-DRS, banned after Baku and subsequently ratified as 'illegal' also in the regulations , is still present on some cars, managing to somehow circumvent the static checks that are implemented.

[the EDGE]

My understanding is that cameras will be installed to monitor what is going on, and that may lead to additional action in the future, but for now, wings that pass the current tests are to be deemed legal

The most that will happen is they’ll be told to strengthen for future races, like McLaren were last year

[FW17]

None of this matters until Melbourne regardless of any flexi wings that may or may not have been used In testing if teams are found to be taking the piss so to speak with wing flex the fia will deal with it.
Pierre wache’s comments about McLaren and Ferrari potentially using mini drs is nothing new teams do this year after year as far as I could tell every time the Ferrari or McLaren rear facing onboard came on there wings seem to act normal there was no sight of any twisting or opening a gap Mercedes was the only one to catch my eye but again it’s testing an australias a whole different debate

Red Bull are so magnanimous, that they will not protest the teams.

[Slitch-nl]

Fp1 will reveal many things and then what? Like MCLaren they will get a bonus of a ton of races to fix their cheating?

I take issue with these sort of accusations. If the FIA allows it and passes all the tests then it’s legal. It’s what F1 is all about. Pushing the boundaries. Everyone in the off season has done their own take on the rules and work accordingly. F1 should be about invention and pushing the limits. Otherwise it’s just another stock formula

McLaren passed all the tests last year and yet we all saw what is happening and yet how many races passed and points gained from MCLaren? Now in the MB video we see a huge deform and lowering down of the whole rear wing design and we don't know who else has that since no other video emerged yet. Is that nominal movement according to the spirit of the rules? If not, how much time FIA will give this bonus to the team/teams that do this till they ban it?
This is what i am talking about. FIA must be swift and clear, nothing can deform/move if we reach fp1 of the 1st race or else we will have another fiasco with politics and team/teams to be benefited of this.

I fully agree. Kudos to the teams that find loopholes, but we've had so much clarifications and additions to the rules about flex that it shouldnt be possible anymore.
But last year was a obvious attempt to influence the championship. The fact that the fastest car, who was protested by other teams, didnt have any dots on the rear wing, proves the FIA influences these races (not even mentioning Brazil Q, sprint and false race start).
Now you see these blatant violations because they know FIA willfully turns a blind eye to create an exiting F1 champion(ship).

[the EDGE]

I take issue with these sort of accusations. If the FIA allows it and passes all the tests then it’s legal. It’s what F1 is all about. Pushing the boundaries. Everyone in the off season has done their own take on the rules and work accordingly. F1 should be about invention and pushing the limits. Otherwise it’s just another stock formula

McLaren passed all the tests last year and yet we all saw what is happening and yet how many races passed and points gained from MCLaren? Now in the MB video we see a huge deform and lowering down of the whole rear wing design and we don't know who else has that since no other video emerged yet. Is that nominal movement according to the spirit of the rules? If not, how much time FIA will give this bonus to the team/teams that do this till they ban it?
This is what i am talking about. FIA must be swift and clear, nothing can deform/move if we reach fp1 of the 1st race or else we will have another fiasco with politics and team/teams to be benefited of this.

I fully agree. Kudos to the teams that find loopholes, but we've had so much clarifications and additions to the rules about flex that it shouldnt be possible anymore.
But last year was a obvious attempt to influence the championship. The fact that the fastest car, who was protested by other teams, didnt have any dots on the rear wing, proves the FIA influences these races (not even mentioning Brazil Q, sprint and false race start).
Now you see these blatant violations because they know FIA willfully turns a blind eye to create an exiting F1 champion(ship).

You’re given a set of rules, you follow them. It’s that simple

Wings are allowed to move and flex, and there are tests in place to limit how much this movement and flex can be

If you pass the tests then you have followed the rules. If the FIA have missed something, they are within their right to change the tests, or the wording of the rules. It is only fair then that a set time is given for teams to then comply with the new wording or the new test

If a team has found a solution and benefits from that, then that’s just tough luck for the other teams, they should have thought of that too

That is F1, always has been and always will be

[Slitch-nl]

I agree that reading between the lines is a subsport of f1. Howeverarticle 3.15.16 specifically requires "contrasting markers" to be applied to the rear wing to allow its behavior to be "monitored using the onboard cameras." This suggests visual monitoring of component flexing during actual race conditions. Article 3.15.1 states that the FIA reserves the right to introduce additional load/deflection tests if components "appear to be" or are "suspected of" moving while the car is in motion - implying some level of visual observation drives the testing process

[SonicF1]

I don’t think this rule amendment is drastic enough to cause a great deal of issues for larger teams. Surely they’ve manufactured and tested varying levels of wings flexibility.
They have 5 or 8 various wings to select from their inventory….no big deal!! Front wing margin of flexibility from current spec wing will be negligible.

[Luscion]

FIA has found teams using mini DRS, a revision of the TD will be included as early as china this week

https://autoracer.it/it/esclusiva-mini- ... -direttiva

The additional cameras that panned the rear wings left no doubt in the minds of the men headed by Jan Monchoaux, from 2024 at the Federation's technical helm, who informed the teams in the morning that they would proceed with a further revision of the technical directive, as early as the Chinese GP, to counter the too much rear wing deflection noted in Australia. Article 3.15.17 will be updated, namely that of the test related to the slot-gap between mainplane and movable wing, which should be no more than 0.5 mm, when a load of 750N is applied to the wing ends (with the car stationary), compared to the 2 mm allowed until Australia. The test is done by placing the vertical load on the left and right, in an area between the rear wing mainplane and the movable flap.

A 75% reduction from the previous tolerance value, thus leaving very little movement to the carbon structure. In Australia, the DRS effect of the top teams exhibited a percentage delta between closed flap and open flap that was not so huge, aligned with an average speed increase of 23 km/h (+24 km/h for Mercedes, +23 for McLaren and Red Bull, +22 km/h for Ferrari) with a gain of about 8% over top speed. Apparently there is no one team put in the crosshairs by the Federation, as much as it is more a generalized issue of the abuse of the deflections that would have angered the FIA's technical department, which has found on its hands the rampant spread of the phenomenon despite continuous actions taken. However, it is understood that some teams, more than others, could see themselves negatively affected on this front.

[organic]

FIA are furious following Australia. Many teams are violating the rules with the rear wings

[fourmula1]

Is this a clampdown on a loophole or is this simply a change of regulation? I am not familiar with the ruleset other than they must pass a static flex test.

[chrisc90]

Any footage of rear wings that people seen?

[Farnborough]

McLaren passed all the tests last year and yet we all saw what is happening and yet how many races passed and points gained from MCLaren? Now in the MB video we see a huge deform and lowering down of the whole rear wing design and we don't know who else has that since no other video emerged yet. Is that nominal movement according to the spirit of the rules? If not, how much time FIA will give this bonus to the team/teams that do this till they ban it?
This is what i am talking about. FIA must be swift and clear, nothing can deform/move if we reach fp1 of the 1st race or else we will have another fiasco with politics and team/teams to be benefited of this.

I fully agree. Kudos to the teams that find loopholes, but we've had so much clarifications and additions to the rules about flex that it shouldnt be possible anymore.
But last year was a obvious attempt to influence the championship. The fact that the fastest car, who was protested by other teams, didnt have any dots on the rear wing, proves the FIA influences these races (not even mentioning Brazil Q, sprint and false race start).
Now you see these blatant violations because they know FIA willfully turns a blind eye to create an exiting F1 champion(ship).

You’re given a set of rules, you follow them. It’s that simple

Wings are allowed to move and flex, and there are tests in place to limit how much this movement and flex can be

If you pass the tests then you have followed the rules. If the FIA have missed something, they are within their right to change the tests, or the wording of the rules. It is only fair then that a set time is given for teams to then comply with the new wording or the new test

If a team has found a solution and benefits from that, then that’s just tough luck for the other teams, they should have thought of that too

That is F1, always has been and always will be

I certainly agree with you here.

I would add to the conversation generally though in defining a "loophole" as something that's not been seen by the rule writers, or a definition that is so tight as to allow a "pedantic" opposite to then exist. The double diffuser being of that type.

I thought the McL DRS wing flap bending at the corners in Baku was clever and walked a line between the functional strain tests etc and how it then moved under more extreme race applied load.
I do think that type of performance though is not loophole, but of INTENTIONALLY manufactured and designed components to fully comply with test regime but then, as demonstrated there, move to very good effect after that fact has been established. By designing in "digressive" attribute to the wing and its layup seeks to very obviously circumvent the rules in place, that to obviously bring aero advantage.
Moving aerodynamic surfaces specifically forbidden. The static testing would seem to lack the resolution to determine just this.

Hence the hi-res cameras now ..... possibly accompanied by new words with TD to bring compliance.

An so,,the rumors were true from testing in Bahrain both whisoer of DRS frigging and McL latent pace over the others.

[Emag]

The article is missleading because it uses the mini DRS terminology incorrectly. This is not about the mini DRS exploit specifically. That got clamped down on last year already. This is about the general flex tolerances in the rear wing and the implications of the flex.

The new technical directive is more restrictive in the allowed tolerance of the gap increase between the main plane and the movable wing (DRS Flap). It seems the FIA has noticed that the flexing under load of the main-plane (which is the 'bottom flap') on some of the teams rear wings, is creating a bigger gap to the DRS flap (or top flap) than they would want to.

This nice illustration by @ScarbsTech can help understand better :



The mainplane is flexing under load and opening up a gap with the top flap.

You can kind of see it from the testing footage on the McLaren (ignore the arrow, that's irrelevant. it was there because the guy who made the video first was inquiring about the gap at the side, which is actually fine, just a design choice).

Just notice how the entire assembly flexes 'backwards', including the mainplane, and how that opens up the gap underneath the flap a little bit more. The gap opening up is barely visible in this video though, too low quality, but presumably FIA had high quality sensors to monitor this thing in Australia.

[Cs98]

Not seen anything obvious pertaining to mini-DRS in Australia, there was a video from testing of the McLaren which showed some signs of flex in that area. Problem is we are talking about millimetres here, and the rearward onboard camera is pretty low resolution and shaky.

I'd say that the bigger issue is the backward/downward flex of the RW assembly at high speed. The same kind of flex RB got in trouble for in 2021. It has always been there to some extent out of necessity, but now it's back with a vengeance. The McLaren wing which they ran in Melbournce flexes a lot. The new Ferrari rear wing shakes like a bobblehead statue on the straights, it looks absurd. Mercedes I didn't get a rearward shot from in the race. Red Bull's new RW flexes too, but the least of the three I saw in the race (McL, Fer, RB).