Final 2010 Entry List & 2011 Tender

[ISLAMATRON]

Just posting article because you asked if it was mentioned.....I literally typed in "f1 single engine supplier" on Google and it was the first one....

The idea is still that they only build 1 kind of identical powertrain. So even if you build by different companies it'll still technically be the same engine, designed by the same 3rd party source....

At any rate it was more of a passing fancy since it'll never fly if there are more than 2 companies that makes engine stays in F1...

Ferrari or any engine maker can not make 2 identical engines, with dyno numbers within 1% of each other, they all build from the same spec sheet now, a spec sheet made by the teams themselves.

[RacingManiac]

Its not a spec sheet now though. They are limited to size, layout, weight(even I think bore to stroke and something more concrete too)...etc. But all the parts are still designed by each team to their own spec. Its not as if you can throw a Renault con-rod on a Ferrari or a Mercedes valve to a Cosworth. Or that the Ferrari head can be bolted to a Mercedes block. The proposal as it was made to sound like was to do just that.

Now they can still be "different" even made from the same print(ie, the Toyota recall deal, with the throttle assy made by CTS in US and Denso in Japan, and one apparently have problem but not the other, for the same part), but it is still supposed to be the same part.

[Pup]

Pup, please answer the following question? What new team has entered and NOT been off the pace?

The very point of all this is to make the new and smaller teams more competitive. No one will know the outcome of that until the end of the season. They don't have to be fighting for wins, but they have to show that they have a better chance of fighting the big guys than similar teams have had in the past. Personally, I think 4 seconds off the pace is the lowest standard you could use, since that's what Minardi and Aguri regularly ran at. If they can't do that, then ipso facto nothing whatsoever has changed. But of course, the standard should really be higher, since we've always had teams like Sauber, Jordan, Red Bull, etc. who have faired much better.

Source 1 article, interview, or even quote where Mosley said he want to replace all the engine manufacterers with an outside supplier, or please stop dissimating false information.

Well, this has already been shown to you already by others. Mosley made the proposal to the WMSC...

"The FIA intends to amend the regulations to require all Formula One competitors to use a standardised engine."

If you want to ignore a fact this clear, then I can't help you. Mosley also proposed standardized chassis. That was his MO - all the man ever cared about was power and control.

[ISLAMATRON]

You obviously read the first line and your head exploded so you were unable to read the rest.

And no the point was not to make the new teams more competitive, that was the aim of the budget cap that FOTA destroyed. The point now is to just get more teams on the grid that can hopefully survive and move up the grid in a year or two. Your hate for the man blinds you to the reality on the ground... 9 teams or 12 teams take your pick.

"The Pup intends to amend the FIA press releases to fit whatever anti-Mosley agenga he is pushing for the day."

What you can think you can quote a FIA release(probly out of context) without providing a source and not be called out on it?

[WhiteBlue]

The standardization of engines was a proposal with the aim to direct research and development resources towards regenerative technologies instead of ever increasing rpm and power which was useless for the manufacturers. The standard gearbox had the same aim. Again they were primarily proposals with the aim to develop fuel efficiency technolgies. Whenever the teams were prepared to talk sense Mosley was very much prepared to listen to counter proposals.

For example he proposed the CDG wing and limiting doenforce to 1.25 tons to solve the overtaking problem. When the teams proposed the OWG he listened and agreed although the OWG took three years to implement anything and then it was so full of loop holes that nothing was achieved. This is hardly the way of a mad cow or dictator. People fabricate these stories and just want to believe them regardless of any truth.

[ISLAMATRON]

The F1 teams are sometimes blind and do not realise what is happening in the world,

Seems like some of the fans of those teams are just as blind as the teams themselves

[Pup]

What you can think you can quote a FIA release(probly out of context) without providing a source and not be called out on it?

Here's the whole thing if you want. Reuters - you may have heard of them. You ought to ask before you conclude. Makes you look quite the fool, so I've seen...

SHANGHAI, Oct 17 (Reuters) - Formula One's governing body said on Friday it intended to change the rules to force teams to use a standard engine from 2010 as part of a cost-cutting drive.
The International Automobile Federation (FIA) issued a statement announcing a tender for "a third party supplier of engines and transmission systems" to be used by all teams in 2010, 2011 and 2012.
The tender process comes ahead of a meeting scheduled between FIA president Max Mosley and the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) in Geneva after this weekend's Chinese Grand Prix.
The FIA, setting out their proposals in an agenda seen by Reuters, has argued the costs of Formula One are unsustainable in the current economic climate and must be slashed to ensure none of the 10 teams leave the sport.
"The FIA intends to amend the regulations to require all Formula One competitors to use a standardised engine," said a spokesman.

I'm ignoring the rest because I'm ignoring you. I've heard enough and seen enough to know that you're not worth the effort. WB may be wrong, but at least he has wit.

Actually, I've had may say, and there's not much more to add, so you boys have fun. Islam, the last word no doubt will be yours. Go get 'em, tiger.

[ISLAMATRON]

I know you hate the FIA & Mosley but I trust their press releases regarding F1 much more than some reuters journalist in China who has probably never even seen an F1 race. I suggest you get your F1 news from a broad spectrum of sources insted of just looking for the ones that support your anti-Mosley agenda.

[Pup]

Like I said, I've had my say.

But, you might want to look up the date of the Chinese GP that year before you start to go off on "some reuters journalist in China who has probably never even seen an F1 race".

Again: fool, you. If you go out on a limb with me, Islam, I'll chop it off every time.

[gibells]

17 Oct 2008
FIA seeking standardised engines from 2010 Formula One racing’s governing body, the FIA, has invited tenders for a third party supplier of engines and transmission systems to be used by competitors in the 2010, 2011 and 2012 world championships.

However, existing teams and engine suppliers could still be allowed to build their own engines, providing they are to the same standardised design specified by the third party supplier.

The move to a single engine is one of several ideas being proposed by the FIA as a means of further reducing costs and increasing competitiveness in the sport, which already has a freeze on engine development.

Did you not read the parts in bold?
And the spec was not to be change from the V-8 as it was at the time

Oh come on Matron.

You are ignoring the bit in bold. The only reason people go racing is to beat each other. You beat each other by having better design. What is the actual point of stumping up even 1 million Dollars if the manufacturers couldn't show off their wares. From your posts you own/run a tuning shop (I think). Your sales are surely based on peoples desire to impress, to be fastest, to make others envious. It's in our make up to be better than Mister Jones.

In my mind Max's biggest mistake was to shake the Universal, or the Catholic engine at the manufacturers. Competitiveness is the very reason of entry into the sport. Grand Prix is supposed the be the pinacle, and yet we teeter over the edge of mediocrity. With the Catholic Engine, we welcome Dacia Racing /Roewe (Chinese for Rover) F1/Hyundai GP/ Kia RT, and we close the door to Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, etc.

In particular this idea of his was such utter bollocks and so out of touch with the industry and even common sense. And you cannot excuse him, or Bernie, by saying it was just his way of getting them to commit. In the cold light of day these are the things by which they will be remembered.

I am not against the FIA, I just can't stand a fool. I am not against Todt. In fact, the things he has been doing make a lot of sense. They seem to be bringing stability. Most of all I think he has gained their (the teams/manufacturers) and our, respect.

[pgj]

17 Oct 2008
FIA seeking standardised engines from 2010 Formula One racing’s governing body, the FIA, has invited tenders for a third party supplier of engines and transmission systems to be used by competitors in the 2010, 2011 and 2012 world championships.

However, existing teams and engine suppliers could still be allowed to build their own engines, providing they are to the same standardised design specified by the third party supplier.

The move to a single engine is one of several ideas being proposed by the FIA as a means of further reducing costs and increasing competitiveness in the sport, which already has a freeze on engine development.

Did you not read the parts in bold?
And the spec was not to be change from the V-8 as it was at the time

Oh come on Matron.

You are ignoring the bit in bold. The only reason people go racing is to beat each other. You beat each other by having better design. What is the actual point of stumping up even 1 million Dollars if the manufacturers couldn't show off their wares. From your posts you own/run a tuning shop (I think). Your sales are surely based on peoples desire to impress, to be fastest, to make others envious. It's in our make up to be better than Mister Jones.

In my mind Max's biggest mistake was to shake the Universal, or the Catholic engine at the manufacturers. Competitiveness is the very reason of entry into the sport. Grand Prix is supposed the be the pinacle, and yet we teeter over the edge of mediocrity. With the Catholic Engine, we welcome Dacia Racing /Roewe (Chinese for Rover) F1/Hyundai GP/ Kia RT, and we close the door to Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, etc.

In particular this idea of his was such utter bollocks and so out of touch with the industry and even common sense. And you cannot excuse him, or Bernie, by saying it was just his way of getting them to commit. In the cold light of day these are the things by which they will be remembered.

I am not against the FIA, I just can't stand a fool. I am not against Todt. In fact, the things he has been doing make a lot of sense. They seem to be bringing stability. Most of all I think he has gained their (the teams/manufacturers) and our, respect.

When was this ever the case? As a prototype series F1 is so refined that only a small amount of watered down technological development will find its way anywhere near a road car.

F1 is about brand awareness. It has nothing to do with manufacturers showing off their wares.

[WhiteBlue]

The World Council approved the initiation of a new selection process for a potential 13th entry (and reserve entry) to the 2011 FIA Formula One World Championship.

This is what I thought would happen. Two candidates will be selected according to new criteria in which the teams will have the main input. With the Concord in place the process will hopefully be smooth, efficient and uncontroversial. In case another team drops out we will have a reserve.

I predict the due diligence will be continued this time in the run up to the first test. I also expect the test to be earlier in the season or in winter.

[marcush.]

with USF1 unable to turn up in Bahrain due to failing to produce cars in time ,and FIA reaction of retracting their entry it is now official that a new round of
applying for this slot is opened for the 2011 Season.

the obvious applicants could be :
USf1 -if they are accepted by FIA after the mess created by them
Stefan GP -see above
Epsilon Euskadi
Lola
prodrive
Tonn-f1technical
LegendaryM


as a real point of interest one could see the availability of ready build cars sitting in Germany with a group of people who actually did the work.so this could be
a real asset for someone trying to start off a new team.
apart from redesigning the diffuser area wich will not be allowed for 2011 this could be a very good starting point for anyone trying to form a new team.
Of course it is an asset to toyota ,but not for a very long time so if they really want to sell the price cannot be too high ...and almost anyprice would be better than throwing away everything.for sure the Cologne car is way better than everything we will see in 2010 from Lotus,Virgin or Hispano and it should be enough to be on par with them next season.
of course ,if you need to build spares or even new tubs things can easily swing back against a new team that has bought works outfit equipment ..i´m quite sure the toyotas are not really build with cost optimisation a real issue...so a team
goingthat route should quickly try to get rid of the Toyota lump and Gearbox for 2012 to contain cost.

so why not Hurley applying for the slot and buying the toyota remains and using the facility in USA to start the redesign for 2012 already + developing aero for 2011?

[WhiteBlue]

Could the moderators please merge with

viewtopic.php?p=151902#p151902 or
viewtopic.php?p=152439#p152439 or both?

also related to news item:

http://www.f1technical.net/news/14434

[marcush.]

ah sorry ,looked up the forum but did not find those..my mishap.