Ferrari F10

[PlatinumZealot]

I know the Torro Rosso's.. basically like last years RedBull but flared out more.
As for the Williams now.. yes it does look like the Ferrari's, just smaller.

[Jersey Tom]

Couldn't find all the photo I have... maybe later...

I'd like to see higher res versions of these... they exist?

[Miguel]

First of all, because the memory of fish lasts 2 seconds and the memory of forum writers lasts one page, let me remind you that the quote about the wild guess is mine. Is it wrong? I'm not surprised. Basically the only thing I know about engines is that they can't be more efficient than a Carnot cycle. That's it. Someone asked for a guess and I provided it. Of course, my guesses at other aspects of life may be more accurate.

My sources close to the action indicate it is closer to a 9.71hp increase, at STP.

I'm surprised by this figure. More concretely, by its accuracy. Why 9.71 and not 9.72? That gives me the impression that F1 engines have a QA that sets their power by 5 significant figures. Do you guys (or JT's sources) have a clue of the factory variability of F1 engines? How does it compare with street car engines?

EDIT: Verb fixing.

[Jersey Tom]

My sources close to the action indicate it is closer to a 9.71hp increase, at STP.

I'm surprised by this figure. More concretely, by its accuracy. Why 9.71 and not 9.72? That gives me the impression that F1 engines have a QA that sets their power by 5 significant figures. Do you guys (or JT's sources) have a clue of the factory variability of F1 engines? How does it compare with street car engines?

EDIT: Verb fixing.

Sarcasm...

[Miguel]

My sources close to the action indicate it is closer to a 9.71hp increase, at STP.

I'm surprised by this figure. More concretely, by its accuracy. Why 9.71 and not 9.72? That gives me the impression that F1 engines have a QA that sets their power by 5 significant figures. Do you guys (or JT's sources) have a clue of the factory variability of F1 engines? How does it compare with street car engines?

EDIT: Verb fixing.

Sarcasm...

Sorry

[timbo]

So, Domenicali confirmed what I guessed based on drivers' comments -- F-duct was hurting Ferrari DF-wise

Domenicali said post-Spain analysis of the F-duct used in the Barcelona had shown that it had actually cost the F10 ultimate downforce - despite providing a straight-line speed boost.

[ecapox]

I read that also Timbo. Question about the control of the F-Duct:

Can it be operated by a button on the steering wheel? If so, make a small electromangnet that pulls a door open when it needs to be in use and pushes the door closed when the button is not pressed.

[raymondu999]

that would make it "active" or "moveable" aero which is illegal. Think of it as that no parts of the car can move to affect aero. Except that McLaren uses the DRIVER. Hmmph.

[mistrx]

here is an article from Scarbs regadring those 12HP

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/05/1 ... ification/

[autogyro]

I thought their f-duct looked a bit basic on the control side, perhaps it is all the escaping nitrogen from the pneumatic valve spring system upseting the air flow as it generates all that extra horse power?
At least they have not built what looks like a turbine house around it to help it work like McLaren.
If they used much harder suspension like McLaren they might suck the car down better and like McLaren it could then hold the inside front wheel fully stationary in the air and save on tyre wear as well.
The way things are going, Lotus could well be up with these guys in a couple more races.

[segedunum]

So, Domenicali confirmed what I guessed based on drivers' comments -- F-duct was hurting Ferrari DF-wise

Domenicali said post-Spain analysis of the F-duct used in the Barcelona had shown that it had actually cost the F10 ultimate downforce - despite providing a straight-line speed boost.

Yep, which makes the assumption that teams can simply use a F-duct system and add downforce for free nonsense. Making the F-duct really work is complicated and requires a very specific rear wing to try and ensure that compromises are not made with downforce versus not having the system.

[thestig84]

I thought their f-duct looked a bit basic on the control side, perhaps it is all the escaping nitrogen from the pneumatic valve spring system upseting the air flow as it generates all that extra horse power?
At least they have not built what looks like a turbine house around it to help it work like McLaren.
If they used much harder suspension like McLaren they might suck the car down better and like McLaren it could then hold the inside front wheel fully stationary in the air and save on tyre wear as well.
The way things are going, Lotus could well be up with these guys in a couple more races.

Thanks for that. It has really added to the thread. Its not the 1st thread you pointless comparison of Mclaren to turbine has appeared. Have you even seen a turbine/turbine housing!?

Back on topic. SD comments are very interesting. However I was still initially impressed with their f duct in Spain. I think it looks like a good start point and will no doubt be a lot better after 4 weeks added development in time for Turkey. Will be interesting if they and Mclaren will close the gap on RB with Turkeys fairly long straight.

[ringo]

So, Domenicali confirmed what I guessed based on drivers' comments -- F-duct was hurting Ferrari DF-wise

Domenicali said post-Spain analysis of the F-duct used in the Barcelona had shown that it had actually cost the F10 ultimate downforce - despite providing a straight-line speed boost.

Yep, which makes the assumption that teams can simply use a F-duct system and add downforce for free nonsense. Making the F-duct really work is complicated and requires a very specific rear wing to try and ensure that compromises are not made with downforce versus not having the system.

No, what it concludes is that ferrari's is not fully controlled by the driver and leaks when not activated. which you kinda said it in your last sentence.
The f duct is like making an air tight seal out of air. It's difficult.
The f duct can be free and zero compromise, with the right design. From the first time i saw other teams building the f duct i knew it would be a hack job.
I have a general mathematical understanding of how it works, and i believe it can operate without a compromise; theoretically.

[marcush.]

the advantages for an f-duct are not that big ,if you look into this calculator:

http://www.baranidesign.com/acceleratio ... ation.html

the main advantage seems to be the high end speed but in terms of time its not
setting the world on fire...

[Intego]

here is an article from Scarbs regadring those 12HP

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/05/1 ... ification/

And here we come full circle. That was the source to kick off the 12 HP speculation ...