Pirelli will take Bridgestone's place after 2010

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Pirelli is the best option.

They are the only guys who want an 18inch tyre in F1. No more gumball tyres means a few things. Namely F1 is bang up to date with the real world, I mean who uses 13 inch tyres nowadays?
Secondly, if the tyre grip level is reduced, we may see more overtaking!

I will let the rubber guys and afficionados explain( )

A large portion of the world uses 13-15" tires on consumer vehicles. Expensive sportscars on 18, 19, and 20" wheels are a tiny sliver of the market (though they do get a lot of attention). Of course, that's not particularly important anyway since there's absolutely no f'ing reason that race cars have to be remotely similar to road cars. Beyond that, there's absolutely nothing more "high tech" or "advanced" about an 18" tire compared to 15" or 13".

I was under the impression only Michelin wanted to go up to 18" wheels. Pretty obvious why, and it has nothing to do with "synergies" with their sportscar tire development. Massive load of BS.

The average car on sale in the UK Europe and US today has a 16 inch tyre. not 13-14 unless of course you live in undeveloped india or china and wish to drive a Tata nano. Thats really of no concern to the F1 fan now is it?

But what will be of concern to a tyre maker is how to extrapulate what they learn in F1 and use that in road cars. The 18 inch tyre is ideal as alot of high performance cars use this size. So as a direct consequence, you may be using an 18 inch pirelli in 5 years time on whatever gas guzzling behemoth you choose to drive that has added performance due to what the manufacturer learned in F1.

[WhiteBlue]

The inertial moment would be significantly higher like at least 50% more. But the suspension would be much more controlled because the properties of the wheel/tyre would be much simpler.

Total BS. Tire "properties" will be no less involved or complicated.

Plenty of F1 engineers got the suspension and weight distribution for the tyres wrong in the past. Just this year Merc effed up. The new low profile tyres will be a lot less springy and have less damping function. The suspension will have to pick up those properties. Because the spring and damper function will be mainly done in the suspension I expect a lot less problems for the engineers to adjust because they can influence those values easily. They cannot change much of the properties of the current tyres. I also expect the new tyres to be less sensitive to pressure changes.

[Jersey Tom]

The average car on sale in the UK Europe and US today has a 16 inch tyre. not 13-14 unless of course you live in undeveloped india or china and wish to drive a Tata nano. Thats really of no concern to the F1 fan now is it?

Ahh yes... "undeveloped countries," AKA "emerging markets," AKA "the only place left on earth that's highly profitable." Your average Euro F1 fanatic might not give a crap, but the tire and auto companies sure do.

But what will be of concern to a tyre maker is how to extrapulate what they learn in F1 and use that in road cars.

Nope.

[Jersey Tom]

Plenty of F1 engineers got the suspension and weight distribution for the tyres wrong in the past. Just this year Merc effed up. The new low profile tyres will be a lot less springy and have less damping function. The suspension will have to pick up those properties. Because the spring and damper function will be mainly done in the suspension I expect a lot less problems for the engineers to adjust because they can influence those values easily. They cannot change much of the properties of the current tyres. I also expect the new tyres to be less sensitive to pressure changes.

And you're basing these conclusions on...?

[WhiteBlue]

Plenty of F1 engineers got the suspension and weight distribution for the tyres wrong in the past. Just this year Merc effed up. The new low profile tyres will be a lot less springy and have less damping function. The suspension will have to pick up those properties. Because the spring and damper function will be mainly done in the suspension I expect a lot less problems for the engineers to adjust because they can influence those values easily. They cannot change much of the properties of the current tyres. I also expect the new tyres to be less sensitive to pressure changes.

And you're basing these conclusions on...?

Reports about the properties of F1 tyres and suspensions. http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 40708.html Christian Klien compares LMP1 and F1 tyres. My personal guess would be: If today 85% of the spring compression comes from the tyre, in the future this will be a lot less (say 15%).

current dimensions are:
304.8mm front width
348.0mm rear width
358mm wheel diameter

18.0 inch wheel rim diameter would be 25.4 mm x 18.0= 458 mm (new wheel)
14.1 inch wheel rim diameter would be 25.4 mm x 14.1= 358 mm (old wheel)

"Low profile new"
Tyre section height new would be 102 mm
Front profile aspect new would be 102/304.8=34%
Rear profile aspect new would be 102/348.0=29%

"Balloon profile old"
Tyre section height old would be 152 mm
Front profile aspect old would be 152/304.8=50%
Rear profile aspect old would be 152/348.0=44%

[Jersey Tom]

I agree that the the tire on a 18" wheel will have a lower aspect ratio.

Beyond that... all the implications of it, those are a stretch.

[WhiteBlue]

I agree that the the tire on a 18" wheel will have a lower aspect ratio.

Beyond that... all the implications of it, those are a stretch.

There will probably be another two years until this really impacts the design and we hear how they cope with it. So we need to revisit this thread in 2012.

[WhiteBlue]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... tire-deal/?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84004

The situation has grown extremely complex of late, with Bernie Ecclestone favoring Pirelli, and Jean Todt supporting Michelin. Most of the teams have been sitting on the fence, although McLaren has been particularly vocal in support of Michelin. Surprisingly perhaps Ferrari is leaning towards Michelin, while Mercedes is said to have moved from Michelin to the Pirelli camp.

It's rumored that there was also some consternation in a recent meeting when it emerged that one top team has enjoyed a different arrangement with Bridgestone than its rivals. Michelin has frequently moved the goalposts. As previously reported, some weeks ago it dropped its price from €5m per team to €1.5m.

We've got to design our cars now, and they are going to change fundamentally because of the loss of the double diffuser and other changes. In order to do that, we need to have the characteristics, specification and performance data of the tyres that will be on our car. If that is wrong, even for a supplier that is selling it to us for half a million less, the likely consequences is that we will be on to our second iteration of wheelbase or suspension geometry and we will have spent much more than half a million. Also we should not take for granted that a tyre is just round and black with a hole in the middle. We saw what happened in Indianapolis [in 2005] – you can easily get yourself into a situation where the tyres are not that durable. If you have that problem on Friday and start calling off races, then the half million saving will look quite small."

My impression is that Michelin has been riding a high horse and has been enjoying some protection from high French places. The teams on average are probably better off with Pirelli. I don't like ham handed tactics of market leaders. So I hope that Pirellli gets the job.

[ISLAMATRON]

It's rumored that there was also some consternation in a recent meeting when it emerged that one top team has enjoyed a different arrangement with Bridgestone than its rivals.

Hmmm.... I wonder what team that would be? I could never guess in 800 races.

[WhiteBlue]

It's rumored that there was also some consternation in a recent meeting when it emerged that one top team has enjoyed a different arrangement with Bridgestone than its rivals.

Hmmm.... I wonder what team that would be? I could never guess in 800 races.

[Avto]

It's rumored that there was also some consternation in a recent meeting when it emerged that one top team has enjoyed a different arrangement with Bridgestone than its rivals.

Hmmm.... I wonder what team that would be? I could never guess in 800 races.

God this F1 people are slow, I mean with all those Team 800 Races/Bridgestone adverts, someone must have suspected something.

[ISLAMATRON]

Still notire decision made... this isgetting rediculous

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84023

[Jersey Tom]

Really sucks for the teams regardless. They need data to design the 2011 chassis' and it will just not exist for some time.

[bill shoe]

There is deliciously optimistic talk from the teams that they are creating a specification for tires that the winning tire supplier will have to adhere to in 2011. This will allow teams to proceed with 2011 car design.

I respect Michelin in a certain narrow technical sense, but Michelin's weak point is their attitude. If they win the contract I doubt they'll feel any obligation to follow the teams' guidlines. This is just the nature of the company.

[timbo]

Really sucks for the teams regardless. They need data to design the 2011 chassis' and it will just not exist for some time.

But when they could hope to get that data even if the deal was done by now?
In case of Pirelli they need to get design from the ground up, Michelin too as they didn't made slick F1 tyres for a long time. So before the first batch is produced and tested (and not even track tested...) there's not much teams could get IMO.
I think teams should spend their money on crystal balls....