Japanese GP 2010 - Suzuka

[feynman]

I think Hamilton pushes the car too hard. That's why stuff breaks. Button takes it a little easier. Or so it seems to me anyway.

Yeah, he presses the micro-switch on the back of the steering wheel much harder than Button ... that's why a gear stripped in a brand-new factory-fresh box.

Lifetimed to do four weekends, but comes apart after half-a-race due to Hamilton's relentless brutality, and half of that distance spent sitting behind the taking it easy Button.

Hamilton raced for three full seasons before he saw a mechanical retirement.
This is f1-technical, evidence-based commenting, that's what we need here. Do you want to have another shot at that?

[marcush.]

of course you can be of this opinion and with them now solidly in 4th as Renault has failed to get cars into the points,it was maybe academic...but still there was the real threat of Kobayashi who would overtook Heidfeld in the race.Before Rosbergs crash Heidfeld was almost in fighting distance to Schumacher...so effectively they played a bit too much into the open race strategy..i wonder if that would be the case if they were fighting for wins ?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think the higher the stakes, the clearer the teams strategy. Much like Ferrari and Alonso, and perhaps Red Bull with the top brass favouring Vettel.
Personally I dont know how Schumacher will fare against Rosberg over a season in a winning car. My gut say he will probably not have the upper hand.

Mentioning Kobayashi, it was great to see the Sauber team allow him to race Heifeld. I must say it looked a bit like Heidfeld was being generous, but then Sauber did put them on contrary strategies.
How great is it to see a guy overtaking competitors and NOT crashing into them?
Despite Alguesari's best efforts it must be said...what was he thinking?

[timbo]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87389
Petrov penalised for the next GP while Massa escapes penalty.

Watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RodXF9KMRTg
IMO either both are at fault or it is race incident for both.

[zeph]

Hamilton raced for three full seasons before he saw a mechanical retirement.
This is f1-technical, evidence-based commenting, that's what we need here. Do you want to have another shot at that?

Nah, you go first...

Anyway, not sure what's with the sarcasm. I have voiced my impression that Hamilton seems to push the car hard, perhaps too hard at times.

What's wrong with that? It is my view, and I would think that I am allowed to air it. If you are of the persuasion that it was merely bad luck, I have no problem with that.

So he raced for three seasons before he saw a mechanical retirement? What is your conclusion? That the McLaren is fragile this year? I can dig that, given what happened in Singapore.

[Guessdot]

Mclaren is like shooting their own leg.. I can't believe there is so much problem with lewis's car while there is none on button's.. It's obvious that lewis is quicker then button and by letting them race fair and having equal treatment.. Erm....

Why back LH to only blew it in the last race? If they back Button, he will at least brightn it home

Erm.. if button brings the car home every race behind the redbulls and alonso, there isn't much use is it? lol.. That's just my view.. As i think in terms of pace,lewis is faster and therefore has a better chance to win..

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Mclaren is like shooting their own leg.. I can't believe there is so much problem with lewis's car while there is none on button's.. It's obvious that lewis is quicker then button and by letting them race fair and having equal treatment.. Erm....

Why back LH to only blew it in the last race? If they back Button, he will at least brightn it home

Erm.. if button brings the car home every race behind the redbulls and alonso, there isn't much use is it? lol.. That's just my view.. As i think in terms of pace,lewis is faster and therefore has a better chance to win..

Aesops fable counters that. Speed aint everything, as Lewis has ably demonstrated the 2 Grand Prix prior to todays.

[feynman]

...It is my view, and I would think that I am allowed to air it.

That is the problem ... just cos it is your "view" doesn't always make it worth sharing. Anyone could easily pull all manner of half-baked pet-theories out of thin air, and parade them, but without any form of substantiation, then what exactly is the point of airing them, what do we gain from it, what real use is it to anyone else here.

You seem to confuse being "allowed" to air an opinion with meaning that all opinions are worth airing. Very often they are not. That is what I am saying.

If you have something concrete to back-up a theory, something to override all the available evidence to the contrary, then of course share it; but if it is just a dodgy brakepad, a loose wheelnut, a driveshaft, and a stripped gearcog in four years that you believe indicates a 'car-breaker', then I'm not sure what the exact value of that observation is.
Especially as you could theoretically consider driver-input having any impact on only one of those four stated failure-modes. And since no-one saw him abuse the kerbs in Hungary, even that one is looking highly speculative.

Do you see? I think this place is maybe, in theory at least, supposed to represent a higher barrier to entry for internet comment, that 'technical' bit in the url is probably supposed to mean something. No? Or am I totally wrong?

[SiLo]

You can't say that a driver breaks the car by driving it too fast. The only case when this can be true is when they drive it so fast they go off the road and crash. Hamilton was simply driving really well, and the gear broke. End of.

[Giblet]

These gearboxes can handle Monaco and the sheer number of shifts there. With shifting being a clutchless pushnof a button and far less shifting at japan there is no sane reason to blame Lewis for his gearbox.

[Paul]

On Rosberg & Schumacher- Rosberg had every right to defend his position while being reasonable because realistically they were fighting only each other throughout the race after Renaults were no longer in the race- Mercs were significantly slower than Top3 cars & significantly faster than everyone else. And in the end Schumacher was taking only tenths of seconds from Hamilton's advantage when Hamilton already stopped shifting lower than 4th, until then Schumacher was slower, so no way he could gain another position if Rosberg let him through.

[Giblet]

Kobyashi impresses again. Alguersuari looked like an idiot in a bumper car. Alonso drove a great race.

Vettel as usual impresses when out in front but leaves a question mark for me outside of raw pace.

Decent race with lots to see.

[zeph]

That is the problem ... just cos it is your "view" doesn't always make it worth sharing. Anyone could easily pull all manner of half-baked pet-theories out of thin air, and parade them, but without any form of substantiation, then what exactly is the point of airing them, what do we gain from it, what real use is it to anyone else here.

So I take it you are quite the expert then? By all means, enlighten me.



I will freely admit to being an ignorant enthusiast. I am old enough to know that nobody cares about my opinion and that nobody stands to gain from it.

This is the subforum about races. Where everybody comes together after the race and chats. That is what I am doing. You will not see me obstructing any of the technical threads with my ignorance.

I am at liberty to post here and will continue to do so. Whether that bothers you or not.

[Giblet]

The onus is on you to enforce your opinion on how a driver can push a button differently to cause his third gear to fail on a track that is not hard on gearboxes at all.

You are of course free to chat away and float your opinions, but I am interested in knowing what a driver could possibly do to cause a box to fail from simply shifting it when and where he is supposed to.

If I held your opinion and couldn't figure out any way to back it up, I might just defer it as a mistake in judgement.

I simply can't think of a reason how Lewis could have done it without going over a kerb and slamming it.

[djos]

Driver of the day for me - Kobayashi. A couple of slightly clumsy moves but some absolute beauties too.

<snip>

Solid drive from Alonso and the Red Bull boys.

Totally agree, I luv watching him pull those gutsy OT moves, fantastic stuff! I hope someone gives him a Ferrari or MacMerc one day so we can see Hamilton vs Kobyashi dicing for position! [-o<

Very good drive by Vettel, no silly mistakes and solid sensible drive from Webber and Alonso - Webber stealing the fastest race lap on the Final lap was pure comedy gold tho, Vettel will be furious! =D>