2012 German GP - Hockenheim

[rssh]

Its their engine they can map the engine which ever way they want and as far as I know reducing the torque of the engine is not an extreme engine map . Other team with the same engine may not be able to exploit the engine which ever way they want due to reliability concerns etc .

This lower torque in the mid range helps to reduce wheel slippage in the stadium section of the circuit . Also since the exhaust regulation have change and have become more stringent so that no one can exploit the exhaust for aero benefit I think this is just a case of a sore looser (FIA delegate).

The rule is that the fastest car are the most debated and pressure scutineered cars in the paddock. =D>

[andartop]

So what exactly are Red Bull being accused of here? Is the suggestion that the engine was able to produce more torque than it did implying that they were running some kind of traction control or is it just a mapping that Red Bull would have created to make the car easier to drive in those wet conditions that has ended up being a technical breach of the rules even if in the great scheme of things it's not that serious?

Edit: Or is the section about aerodynamic effects hinting that Red Bull were effectively trying to boost their off throttle blowing by allowing the driver to open the throttle a bit to get the exhausts blowing, but the engine map was failing to translate this input into an increase in torque delivered by the engine hence allowing the exhaust to be blown when the driver didn't want to accelerate (in simple terms).

From Joe Saward:

Article 5.5.3 states that “The maximum accelerator pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or greater than the maximum engine torque at the measured engine speed. The minimum accelerator pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or lower than 0Nm.”

[Mr Alcatraz]

Perez slapped with 5 place grid drop for blocking Kimi and Fred in quali!

[andartop]

You do know when Ferrari, Mercedes and Mclaren see this they will kick up a stink...unlike Monaco (Allowing Webber to keep his victory to save face to the fans and Webber) This will kick up the biggest stink since the Spygate scandal between Mclaren/Ferrari.

Certainly hope so! As much as I like the drivers, and think it would be a shame if they weren't allowed to race, I think it's time for the Red Bull Shiiit Team to reap what they sow.

[NonNewtonic]

Trouble for Red Bull:

If that is upheld then that will be a disqualification from qualifying, so they'll start from the back of the grid if the stewards let them.

Chance are, however, that they'll be let off and asked to change it for the next race.

I don't think so because the FIA won't take the risk to let them get away with it since it may cause significant blown exhaust effect. If they really allow them to race, their opponent will appeal for sure to disqualify them.

[beelsebob]

Trouble for Red Bull:

If that is upheld then that will be a disqualification from qualifying, so they'll start from the back of the grid if the stewards let them.

Chance are, however, that they'll be let off and asked to change it for the next race.

I don't think so because the FIA won't take the risk to let them get away with it since it may cause significant blown exhaust effect. If they really allow them to race, their opponent will appeal for sure to disqualify them.

I would be extremely surprised if this did not result in a qualifying DQ.

[FrukostScones]

If their mapping was really illegal than they will have to change it for the race and will have to start from the back of the grid. F1 is too much show and money to allow a Vettel not to start in Germany.

[beelsebob]

If their mapping was really illegal than they will have to change it for the race and will have to start from the back of the grid. F1 is too much show and money to allow a Vettel not to start in Germany.

I don't think anyone expects him not to start. Disqualification from Qualifying results in starting at the back – remember what happened to Hamilton in Spain?

[Hail22]

If their mapping was really illegal than they will have to change it for the race and will have to start from the back of the grid. F1 is too much show and money to allow a Vettel not to start in Germany.

Remember that this race is also Mercedes AMG GP home event....

And last I remember they haven't signed the new concorde...neither have the other teams...they are only binded in "good faith" to sign in October.

This has to be a DSQ to both cars (from qualifying results with changes to mapping before the race starts), a reprimand and subsequent WMSC hearing as this is the second breach of the year for the team.

[FrukostScones]

If their mapping was really illegal than they will have to change it for the race and will have to start from the back of the grid. F1 is too much show and money to allow a Vettel not to start in Germany.

I don't think anyone expects him not to start. Disqualification from Qualifying results in starting at the back – remember what happened to Hamilton in Spain?

I thought I read about this fear "being not allowed to race" here in the thread, maybe I misunderstood it.

I expect them to start from the back (if illegal maps), but the case is of different nature and would be far more serious than the HAM case in spain.

[myurr]

And yet last time they ran an illegal car (Monaco with the hole in front of the rear tyre that they later had to change) they were allowed to keep the result.

[andartop]

A DSQ for the Bulls would promote Massa up to an impressive 11th position on the grid. If penalties keep on falling left, right and center this weekend, as they have up to now, Felipe baby has a chance of winning this race before it even starts! I would call it: Red Dead Redemption!

[Hail22]

And yet last time they ran an illegal car (Monaco with the hole in front of the rear tyre that they later had to change) they were allowed to keep the result.

All due to the fact Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes deemed it to be unsportman like to appeal the race victory as it would harm the "status" that the Monaco GP holds...they didn't want any issues in Monaco...remember the king can evict/ban people from living in Monaco...most drivers, Team Principals and trainers live in Monaco, I highly doubt they wanted to risk upsetting the king...

[stefan_]

The bulls kinda need a harder slap on the face for their rules juggling habit.

[myurr]

I expect them to start from the back (if illegal maps), but the case is of different nature and would be far more serious than the HAM case in spain.

The FIA in spain said that disqualification was the only punishment available to them for a technical rule breach, hence sending Hamilton to the back of the grid even though it would have been fairer to just delete his times from Q3.

So the only options available to the FIA would be to let them off completely, disqualify them but allow them to start from the back of the grid, disqualify them entirely and ban them from the event, or something more serious than that.

I expect a whole load of bleating from Horner over this and, unfortunately, I expect the FIA to let them off but force a change for the next event. That isn't supposed to be an option for them but that's what they effectively arranged in Monaco with Red Bull's illegal hole in the floor. For whatever reason the FIA seem reluctant to punish genuine cheating.