Pirelli 2013

[raymondu999]

Aha. Forgot about that.

Bruno Senna reckons that the new tyres will be more wider-ranging in terms of driving style. He says that to get the maximum out of 2012 tyres you needed a specific driving style, and it was hurting some drivers who didn't naturally drive using that style.

[PhillipM]

Well, the extra thermal mass alone should help stabilise the tyre performance if nothing else.

[raymondu999]

Because of the heat capacity being bigger and so temperature changes being more difficult? Or how?

[Jersey Tom]

Well, the extra thermal mass alone should help stabilise the tyre performance if nothing else.

How do you figure?

[PhillipM]

As per the other posts, simply as a result of more thermal mass in the carcass/shoulders taking longer to warm up/cool down.
Theoretically I suppose there would be a little more heat generated from the excitations of the additional unsprung mass too.

[ubrben]

As per the other posts, simply as a result of more thermal mass in the carcass/shoulders taking longer to warm up/cool down.
Theoretically I suppose there would be a little more heat generated from the excitations of the additional unsprung mass too.

If you keep the rubber the same stiffness and increase the thickness of it, you lower cornering stiffness. This means higher slip angles and more energy being dissipated in the tread

Ben

[Jersey Tom]

As per the other posts, simply as a result of more thermal mass in the carcass/shoulders taking longer to warm up/cool down.
Theoretically I suppose there would be a little more heat generated from the excitations of the additional unsprung mass too.

If you keep the rubber the same stiffness and increase the thickness of it, you lower cornering stiffness. This means higher slip angles and more energy being dissipated in the tread

Ben

Moreover, to Phillip's original assumption... adding more tread rubber does NOT mean you have the same heat generation (power rate), and the additional mass means it changes more slowly.

Even driving in a straight line with near-zero slip angles, more tread gauge [if that is indeed what Pirelli is doing] = a higher rate of heat energy generation. Could go so far as to say the heat generation rate and it's sensitivity to speed is increased.

Ultimately how much heat the tire generates through the tread mainly comes down to (a) [to my point] how much tread rubber you have, (b) its loss rate, (c) [to Ben's point] how much strain you're imposing, (d) the cyclical rate [effectively the car speed].

Though yes, the added mass will have an effect on the transient rate of change... but it isn't by itself. You have one aspect which by itself would decrease the transient rate, and one which increases it. Which wins out?

[godlameroso]

So essentially Pirelli are designing softer compounds with more mass to offset the faster degradation and as a by-product stabilizing their heating rates allowing a wider range of slip angle before the operating window is passed. In other words, compared to this year they're more robust tires simply because they have more tread, but the compounds are being made stickier so that they still degrade and force pit stops. It's truly a technical challenge, but at the same time it's also a natural evolution of the tire.

Such a move would absolutely benefit teams with potentially fast cars. For example let's say that some teams are attempting to exploit shifting the center of pressure forward to generate good turn in for fast corners. Such a team would be doing it as a response to loss of rear downforce, and although the turn in is excellent and the car also has great stability in high speed corners it's compromised by the amount of slip angle it can run and thus it can't exploit it's speed because it's forced to slow it's own pace so that the tires will last. Compared that to a team that has marginally better downforce overall, but uses it much more efficiently and you could see how competition could be evened out.

[Jersey Tom]

So essentially Pirelli are designing softer compounds with more mass to offset the faster degradation and as a by-product stabilizing their heating rates allowing a wider range of slip angle before the operating window is passed.

That may be stacking quite a few assumptions together. I wouldn't go so far as to come to all those conclusions.

For one.. let's say the tire is indeed heavier. Maybe that is a result of using heavier tread gauge. Or, maybe it's just a cost down measure and they're replacing some lightweight (read: expensive) fabrics for cheaper ones.

If the general consensus is that the Pirellis need to run hotter or get to temperature faster, heavier tread gauge would make sense to that end. Not sure I'd read much into the "softer" or "harder" or any other tread compound terminology. Can get quite confusing and convoluted quite quickly.

Nor do I buy into anything about "ranges of slip angles."

Just my 2 cents.

[marcush.]

c´mon dave .A broken ARB should of course have a masssive effect on balance .You would not have a ARB if it was not havinng an effect.

You would think so, wouldn't you. More than could be compensated by diff. maps, apparently.

I was quietly trying to make the point that, despite the current F1 mantra, mechanical set-up does matter both to the vehicle & its tyres. F1 would be well served if the current limitations on mechanical set-up were opened up, even to the point of allowing cockpit adjustable bars.

To be fair, I don't know their current suspension configuration. No corner springs would have made a broken bar very interesting...

That was my initial thinking ...they do have corner springs? I fully agree with your claim that Teams seem to neglect traditional mechanical setup and sacrifice everything to aero .

[DaveW]

That was my initial thinking ...they do have corner springs?

The rear suspension of F1 cars usually comprises a 3rd (heave) spring, corner springs & an anti-roll bar. Corner springs are sometimes coupled so that they offer a different (higher) stiffness in heave than in roll. The objective appears to be to reduce the roll stiffness below that which would be possible with simple corner springs and no third spring. I have certainly seen a car fitted with a 3rd spring, an arb, and no corner springs. I couldn't say whether McLaren run with the configuration, but it is a possibility, I guess.

[Tommy Cookers]

IMO the RB shows ever more front suspension travel in single-wheel events, droop especially, and apexing and exiting low speed corners, also the Lotus
the McLaren shows far less travel generally

[ESPImperium]

As it is there is an informal penciled in agreement where the regulations in 2016 will change the wheel dimensions to 15 inch wheels, replacing the present 13.3 inch wheels. However this is for a future argument.

As it is Pirelli have made the operational window wider for the teams for the slicks, they have increased it from a peaky 15C range to a wider 25C to 30C range across all compounds, which should give the teams a much wider selection for strategy, however what is unknown is wear rates, as the Pirelli 2013 spec slicks may just wear just as fast, if not faster than the present 2012 spec rubber.

As for wet weather tires, the Wet tyre and Intermediate Tyre have both been completely changed, as the present wet and inter have been essentially the same since when Pirelli entered in 2011. The new wet will have an extra 1.5mm clearance built into them and have greater tread depth with a heavily revised tread, one that will increase the Liters Per Minute rate from the present 60 to closer to the Bridgestone 80L rate. The Inters will be similar to present but with a 0.5mm increase in tread depth and a slightly revised tread pattern which will increase the LPM from 25L at present to 35L, but its still short of the Bridgestone 45L in that regard. Which will make the switch over times in 2013 in interesting, as if you switch over a lap too early you could be lost, but get it right, you will be rewarded massively, a gamble and miss it call.

[Nando]

Not sure anyone´s seen it or if what i have seen is true but does it not look like the teams are running considerably less pressure in the tires, notably the front tires?
Can´t remember seeing that so much last year,

[DaveW]

I, for one, would be surprised if that were the case. It might be helpful if you could explain how you arrived at that conclusion.