Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery has repeated at Korea that F1's sole tyre suppliers need to have more relevant tyre testing if it is to develop solid and reliable tyres for the 2014 season.
At this point I'll be fair and say.. how much of 2013 performance is on Pirelli, and how much is on FOM pushing them in one direction or another?
Still never been impressed with what they bring to the table, but it is what it is. As for another tire supplier coming in.. what's the motivation? It's outrageously expensive.. between development and support, travel, shipping, and however much they have to fork over for the contract.. how do you quantify and justify the ROI?
There's a reason Bridgestone had enough of it, Michelin wasn't particularly interested at that point except under very specific circumstances and rule changes, Goodyear passed it up, etc etc.
Maybe I should follow IndyCar more this year and see what their tire and degradation situation is like. NASCAR is interesting in that you get quite a mix, particularly given that the tracks vary so much both in configuration and age. Some places are relatively new pavement and tires last indefinitely, to the point you don't necessarily take new ones on pit stops... others are old and abrasive with huge fall-off and tire & pit stop strategy becomes a huge factor for winning.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.
Honestly they didn't need more agressive tyres, they just needed not to be scared when picking compounds, late last season they were clearly making some ridiculously conservative choices (those brand new, super smooth Tilke tracks clearly call for the softest tyres possible but Pirelli was scared), now they went completely to the other end of the spectrum...
Honestly why there are still just 4 compound choices? It doesn't make any sense...
Sevach wrote:those brand new, super smooth Tilke tracks clearly call for the softest tyres possible but Pirelli was scared
I can't say I agree with that assessment. Brand new pavement (like Texas) is tricky from a compound perspective. Really soft compounds can actually be a poor choice in that situation.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.
Q: Mark, obviously there have been some times in the past when you've been very close together and things have been said. Your reaction to what Sebastian has just said.
Mark Webber: "Well, I was happy with how I drove today. I think it was a very good team result. We went into the race a little bit worried about how the race would unfold for us as a team in terms of performance. You still have to drive the grands prix these days at eight-tenths - it's not like the old day when grand prix drivers are driving flat out and leaning on the tyres like hell - because the tyres are wearing out. So it's not the most satisfying thing for us as grand prix drivers these days - but it's the same for everybody.
Q: (Trent Price - Richland F1) Mark, obviously yesterday there were a lot of unknowns surrounding tyres going into this race but you've executed basically what was a perfect race in terms of the tyre management. That must give you some confidence for the rest of the year.
MW: "Yeah, you're right, going into the event we were pretty concerned. Some of our long runs before the Grand Prix itself were pretty poor but these guys are not resting on any laurels, particularly, again, our key beacon in Adrian Newey, Adrian is working hard.
"The thing is I think it's quite good for the neutral, good for the fans and good for probably new people that are following Formula One, but the old - let's say people who have more of a grasp of the sport and more education of where the sport was - it's still a little bit hit and miss. With what we had, probably not much of an idea that's how the race would go for us today.
"I was surprised that other people were not with us, completely, people won't believe that but that's the case, and also I think, for the junior categories they need to get the tyres and things better for young drivers to learn how to push the cars to the limit and drive absolutely on the edge. You watch Rafa Nadal and Roger Federer play each other and it's playing with the lines, it's playing with precision for a five set match and we all enjoy watching that but at the moment we're driving at eight and a half tenths, eight tenths, conserving our pace and some more situations like this will probably happen in the future because there's a lot of ambiguity in who's (on the) pace and who's quick.
"Seb feels he's strong only in the middle of the race then I could respond. The racing is completely around nursing and trying to make the tyres survive and they're not conducive to driving a car on the limit. You don't see us really pushing on the limit. Obviously Seb and I had a push in the middle in our last stint but generally no drivers are really on the limit today. I don't know if I answered your question but anyway, that's my little rant."
posted this on the race thread but it was the wrong place to put it.
Quotes taken from Mark Webber in the press conference today. Sums up perfectly everything.
This race today highlighted 100% perfectly everything thats wrong with F1. Couldn't have made a better argument.
I have to say though, it was entertaining. It wasn't racing, it wasn't motorsport - it was good tv though, like watching a film or something.
hollus wrote:The best car is the one that goes the necessary distance as fast as possible with the available tires (as it is with the available fuel, oil, construction materials, etc). It has always been like that.
If doing that requires a whiff less downforce, it requires a whiff less downforce.
In the 50s the key element was engine power, in the 60s was low drag and agility, in the 70s it became downforce, in the 80s engines again, in 2003-2005 it was tires (in particular their brand), and now it is probably turning towards efficiency.
Different ≠ Worse.
what you don't seem to understand is that none of those things in those times stopped the driver from going as fast as he possibly could with the machinery he had.
These tyres do. They completely stop the core skill required from a racing driver.
It is now 100% entirely down to an engineer dictating how fast the driver can go to manage the tyres.
It is also entirely now down to random ambient temperatures. Just look at Kimi today compared to last week.
There has been nothing in the past like this before. It has been artificially created to 'make the show better'. But as Webber says, I am clearly one of those people who have more grasp and education on the sport. His words, not mine.
fiohaa wrote: what you don't seem to understand is that none of those things in those times stopped the driver from going as fast as he possibly could with the machinery he had.
These tyres do. They completely stop the core skill required from a racing driver.
It is now 100% entirely down to an engineer dictating how fast the driver can go to manage the tyres.
It is also entirely now down to random ambient temperatures. Just look at Kimi today compared to last week.
I agree. I've never really seen a situation like this before where a part of the car will destroy itself unless you use it at 80% of its capability.
Managing tyres has always been a part of the sport, but if you're marginal on tyres at the end of the race after driving at 80% and having 4 pitstops then sorry, but the tyres are rubbish.
Q: Lewis, your thoughts? Obviously this circuit is a fairly extreme one but do you see the picture continuing?
LH: "I probably do, yeah. These tyres make it very hard, very difficult to make them last and particularly for me today, I wasn't really able to make my tyres last as much as I wanted. I was fuel saving from an early point in the race which lost me a lot of time but generally these tyres make... it's not fun, I didn't enjoy the race.
Jersey Tom wrote:At this point I'll be fair and say.. how much of 2013 performance is on Pirelli, and how much is on FOM pushing them in one direction or another?
Well the actual source of this is the team principals. They asked for Bridgestone Canada 2010 type of tires.
And you can´t say Pirelli have not lived up to that request.
It´s also quite interesting how Mercedes/Red Bull complain about tires in AUS. Boullier super-happy.
Now in Malaysia Boullier is probably not that excited anymore whereas Merc and Red Bull probably zip it for now.
I believe Pirelli has given what they asked for but i think many are now regretting they ever asked for it.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!
"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."
Not that you can believe anything out of RedBull at the moment - but Marko reckons:
"I think Pirelli has realised (the situation) and we have been promised that other compounds will come to Bahrain at the latest," added Marko.
"There are definitely signs about a change of the compound," Mercedes' Toto Wolff was quoted as saying by SID news agency. "In all probability, either in Bahrain or maybe after," he added.
In my eyes, the only thing Pirelli could do at this point to further tarnish their tenure in F1 would be to change the compounds now. Teams had all winter to get this --- right, and some of them do get it more right than others. For Pirelli to cow to the pressure of those who didn't do their jobs as well would be...actually quite typical for F1 these days.
There wasnt even any tyre issues in Malaysia during race, Kimi and Grosjean again did 1 less stop then top teams but were back on the grid at stat and in traffic all day so it didnt work but the other teams will just need to learn, nothing more.
Stop being cry babies, if we didnt have these tyres Red Bull would have won both of these races by a minute or more.
Why?
All Pirelli has done is deliver exactly what was ordered.
If you brought in Michelin they would still have to build a self destructing tire, because that's what the FIA and apparently some foolish fans wanted.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss
2011 : okay.
Nice job, the transition between the Bridgestone and the Pirelli was well managed
2012 : the tyre were already quite bad : F-1 Taxi Drivers World Championship.
But the fans were happy with several different winners at the beginning of the season and a close championship.
2013 : very bad, with the "enhanced F-1 Taxi Drivers World Championship" approach
No racing anymore - Are the fans going to be happy if Red Bull don't win a 4th time in a row ?
