Pirelli 2013

[VIZSLA]

Ideally there should be multiple tire suppliers competing with different tech. Then the emphasis would be on winning.
Failing that a single supplier should make just one spec wet, one dry and one inter.
As it is Pirelli is in a no win situation. They only get attention when they fail.

[Hobbs04]

Is it me if Ferrari are capable of going 100% everyone else just needs to do their homework on tire setup. Far too long it's been about aero bits here and there.

Frankly anything (tires,DDD,EBD, etc) that gives an unfair advantage to another team shouldn't be in F1 but if FIA didn't put theses tires into it we might as well watched a repeat of 2011 where the team with the most money wins. F1 is a victim to itself by setting rules for 2009-2013 creating the red bull type/aero dependent cars we have that cannot follow in a high speed corner blah blah blah.

Everyone needs to cool down about the tires. It's barely racing but next year we will be complaining about power trains where (fill in the blank) team has too much horsepower and ERS is always 100% charged. Or the next gizmo f duct, fric, dominates who knows. Pirelli is just stirring it up so we have something to watch other than Red Bull dominance. Enjoy it because either way Pirelli is going to change tires they bring to the races to make sure the championship goes down to the last races. If red bull starts to dominate they will choose the tires that even up the field. Or vice versa with Ferrari.

[ESPImperium]

The thing i still find astonishing is that Bridgestone took the Hard/Mediums to Canada 2010 and that was a 3 stopper on average, however Pirelli took the Super Soft/Softs to the same track last tear and we got a 2 stopper.

Thats what sticks in my mind.

Do i want a 4 stop race, once in a while it will be good ill agree. However tyre deg is getting too much for me, pissing me off a little now. I must admit im a pro-refueling fan, i think refueling can come back, thus easing the tyre woes. My way would be to have refueling stops where drivers can stop for a DTM style shoulder can that is gravity fed from each side of the car, thus giving the car 30Kg extra fuel. The cost would be a stop that would have to last 10 seconds by regulation and the time in the pit lane and no tyres can be taken on at the same time.

As i have heard next year with the 100Kg fuel limit, the tyres will have a better effect on tyre deg as the cars will have up to 60Kg less fuel at the start.

Some have suggested that Pirelli have the slippery end of a --- stick as they cant go testing with the present technology as they used the Toyota TF109-01 chassis in 2010/2011 and the the Renault R30-05 chassis in 2011/2012, both with revisions as well as buying a HRT F111 initially for testing, then for a static display car. However i think there is a point in case there, i think they could do something with in season testing in a cost controlled way, but i am unsure.

As it is, F1 has these points to fix:

* In Season Testing - In a cost controlled manner
* Young Driver Training - How to get the young dudes in the car more/The young engineers in the garage
* Tyres - Pace & Degradation
* DRS - Is it making passing too easy?
* Driving Standards - Are some drivers going too far/Consistent penalties across F1 and lower formula

I think all are tied up together, and the team principles are too blinkered to make a decision and make a call in the good of the sport, most of the lower and mid pack teams are in agreement, however many of the top guys are hardwired to win at any cost to the detriment of the sport. And if this is the case, its a bad day for the ultimate end user, the fan. However us the fans are about as split as the team principles ill admit.

However, ill admit that i am a McLaren fan and a DIR fan. However i follow more than just that, i am a fan of at least one driver at every team, i may have a blinkered view for the aforementioned, but i try to keep a balanced view and try to take a global opinion on things, which can make my views seem complicated, contrived or draconian at times.

As it is, without a Concorde agreement i think F1 is starting to get out of control.

[bhall]

I'm a bit conflicted here. On one hand, I hate these tires and the impact they've had on racing, and I've had this view since Day One of the Abominable Pirellotteri Era. If the act of overtaking is the result of a hard-fought battle for position, these tires have provided the initiative for nothing of the sort. Drivers don't overtake one another these days as much as they just shuffle past one another in the execution of opposing strategies. I guess that looks nice, but then again, so does breast augmentation. (I prefer the real deal.)

On the other hand, the tires are the same for everyone, which means the competition is fair, and that's all you can really ask of any sporting endeavor. Moreover, in Year Three of the Abominable Pirellotteri Era, there's no rational excuse to be made by teams who continue to struggle to make best use of them. Just like teams who failed to exploit the rules concerning the floor and were subsequently left behind by those who cleverly devised double-diffusers in 2009, teams who now fail to consistently exploit the capability of the tires aren't doing their jobs. It's as simple as that.

The only thing Pirelli/F1 can do is stay the course this year. They all made this this bed, so they all have to sleep in it.

[Huntresa]

No teams want in season tests, they want more off season, especially for next year.

And i cant see any way of getting actual young drivers into the car outside of the Young Drivers Test, if even there ( Prosts son... )

Perhaps if they decide to add more off season testing they could limit perhaps 1 or 2 to young drivers and also make rules for what passes as a young driver, cause atm it seems to be just someone who hasnt been in F1 or an F1 race, which doesnt mean young driver.

[Huntresa]

I'm a bit conflicted here. On one hand, I hate these tires and the impact they've had on racing, and I've had this view since Day One of the Abominable Pirellotteri Era. If the act of overtaking is the result of a hard-fought battle for position, these tires have provided the initiative for nothing of the sort. Drivers don't overtake one another these days as much as they just shuffle past one another in the execution of opposing strategies. I guess that looks nice, but then again, so does breast augmentation. (I prefer the real deal.)

On the other hand, the tires are the same for everyone, which means the competition is fair, and that's all you can really ask of any sporting endeavor. Moreover, in Year Three of the Abominable Pirellotteri Era, there's no rational excuse to be made by teams who continue to struggle to make best use of them. Just like teams who failed to exploit the rules concerning the floor and were subsequently left behind by those who cleverly devised double-diffusers in 2009, teams who now fail to consistently exploit the capability of the tires aren't doing their jobs. It's as simple as that.

The only thing Pirelli/F1 can do is stay the course this year. They all made this this bed, so they all have to sleep in it.

Exactly, why bash Pirelli when we see teams can run 1 pit stop shorter then others or run 100% like Ferrari today ?

I mean look at Merc today, they dropped back and not cause of the tyres but cause they fail to understand them even after 3 years, not actually doing their job! And Red Bull whining while they have 2 wins, rly ?

[Cam]

If no-one vocalises - nothing will change.

Spain was boring and confusing. Watching Ferrari run away, Raikkonen yield without trying, mixed running orders (I had no idea who was where on merit for most of it), qualifying is pointless and no-one is driving anywhere near 80% - let alone 100%. "Pedestrian" was used more than once by the commentators. More de-laminations, complete confusion as to what teams expect from the tyres - fast cars over a lap go backwards and a Williams passed a Mercedes.

Yes, it's the same for all teams - but it's no longer about the cars or drivers. It's past ridiculous. Now, Pirelli have to 'tweak' again - how does that not effect teams trying to get to grips with the tyres as they are - they just get some data and Pirelli move the posts again. It's farcical. It's amateur.

I won't watch a qualifying again until they fix it. What's the point (that's why no teams voted for it).

This isn't working. Fix it.

[radosav]

I don't remember Malaysia or Bahrain or China Marussias following Red Bull!
Pirelli introduced their tyres to teams and they all agreed with it!
Now Red Bull cries about it!
But I like this tyres because as Alonso fan I like to see him win . So do Kimi ' s fans ! To me boring was Vettel and Red Bull dominating !
I like it because better drivers will control it better, that is the reason that same drivers win all the time. I hope Ferrari and Lotus
will not allow any change !
There are other racing sports to watch if you are not satisfied!

[Huntresa]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107403

[Dragonfly]

I fail to understand why always a team name is brought into these discussions, especially RBR in particular. The problem and questions are principal and people should overcome their bias towards a team or a driver and try to look at the larger picture and in perspective. We are being manipulated and the perception of close and intense racing is false. There are simply cars passing by one another as any single driver is driving to his scheduled delta. Some say Ferrari didn't have problems and could push. That's not true, the state of their tires was not much better if you cared to look at the close-up shots. They simply had a slight advantage and used it better through strategy. And Alonso was lucky having a slow puncture as it became clear after the race.
Every team tried to do their best spending considerable resources to make a good car. And every car, no matter how much the technical restrictions dictate, has its weak and strong sides. But they cannot use them to the full potential and apply different strategies because there is an artificial handicap imposed by the tires. Their working range is too narrow, they can't utilize the energy a given car is able to put through them. The attention and nursing they require is far beyond the reasonable margin. Previous race winner is struggling for pace during the next. Defending as a part of racing aimed to hamper the rival's strategy is gone. It's like playing chess with remote controls in the hands of almost anonymous engineers behind computer screens.
And it is us, the fans of racing, who suffer, although some seem to not realize it.
Tyre (and resources in general) preservation has always been a part of the game. But it's gone too far. If they have to go into preservation mode after three laps, there's something very wrong. The mere fact that we do not witness crashes or SC situations speaks about the fact that everyone is driving well below the limit.
The unpredictable tyre behavior plays only into the hands of one man - Bernie Ecclestone. As it guarantees the at least half of the season will go in a lottery mode so that casual viewers do not get bored. To hell with sport and racing, Bernie is the last man on earth to care about it.
But I am worried by one pure technical aspect - it seems to me that Pirelli applied tyre construction and technology is becoming dangerous. Tyres fail even if not pushed or abused. Wheel locking do not happen only in an ideal world and there are so much debris of various kind on the track.

[Jonnycraig]

@PaulHembery: "It’s rather bizarre. We’re only doing what we’ve done for the last two years and we don’t understand why you’re so excited.”

Unless u all want us to give Red Bull tyres to win championship. (One-stop processional races), one team would benefit. Them”

An admission that Red Bull have the best car but we don't want them to win.

What a sad state the 'sport' is in...

[timbo]

An admission that Red Bull have the best car but we don't want them to win.

What is best car?
If RedBull is that great, why can't they setup their car in such way to run on the tyres as they are?
Were they not fast in Bahrain?

[ecapox]

Pirelli was asked to make tires more agressive, to create more stops, to create compounds with distinct differences, and have the ability for teams to run different strategies and therefore help with "overtaking". They have done just that. So what, there were 4 stops, some did three stops because they opted for a different strategy. Im ok with that. It isnt ideal, but that is life in F1 now.

It wasnt too long ago that we were all complaining about how boring the races were and that no one could pass each other. We blamed this on the "Tilke Tracks" and we blamed it on the cars super dependence on aeodynamics. We then got DRS and tires that degrade a lot more quickly. Now we complain that there are too many stops, drivers cant push 100% and overtaking isnt exciting because they just wait to use DRS and drive by on the straight.

Instead of adressing the main issue, the dependence on aeodynamics, because remember, we want to keep costs down, other things are done to make F1 less processional. It is artifical, but we asked for it. We didnt say "Hey, make tires that last 6 laps." but we said we need tires that last for less than 1/2 a race. Before Pirelli, you could do a 1 stop strategy on almost every track. Max was two stops and if you were on a 1 stopper, there WAS a tire conservation routine.

Moral to the story is that these are the tires we have, because Pirelli were asked to create them like this. They were not a suprise to anyone. Some cars use tires better than others just as some cars create more downforce than others or some cars use DRS better than others. Changing the compounds in the middle of the season is unfair to the teams that do use their tires well.

If there ever was an area in F1 that is 100% consistent for all teams, it is the tires. Dont change them mid season. Change them for 2014, but remember, going back to tires that last for 1/2 a race isnt optimal either.

[muhammadtalha-13]

@PaulHembery: "It’s rather bizarre. We’re only doing what we’ve done for the last two years and we don’t understand why you’re so excited.”

Unless u all want us to give Red Bull tyres to win championship. (One-stop processional races), one team would benefit. Them”

An admission that Red Bull have the best car but we don't want them to win.

What a sad state the 'sport' is in...

So what if RedBull wins? They have every right to win because they have developed a very fast car. AND i am not aRedBull fan i hate Vettel. When it comes to shitty tyres, people say it's the same for every body, teams should build their cars accordingly etc etc. I mean WTF? What is wrong with hard tyres? its also the same for everybody. it's a team's fault if their car is slower than RedBull. If u don't want RedBull to win run away with championship, why just destroy the whole sport we love? Why don't just develop your cars better?

it's like " hey, MESSI is so good, so his 2 goals against a Low level team will be counted as 1"

[WhiteBlue]

But we did not ask Pirelli to go over the top as they did. In fact I have criticized the Pirelli tyres as too soft forever. Even the first batch in 2011 wasn't right in my view. Too many marbles and we simply don't need the over kill of soft tyres and DRS as it is. We do not even get decent balls out qualifying because you can win races from the third row regularly.

These regular failures we have now with the new steel band under the carcasse are ridiculous. I'm sure Pirelly will fix those problems soon enough but i'm equally sure they will not rectify the main concerns that the tyres are too soft. They profit from all this tyre talk. The more teams complain that all we see is tyre management the more Pirelli are confirmed in their views to run a strategy of super fragile tyres that gets tons of exposure in the press.