Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery has repeated at Korea that F1's sole tyre suppliers need to have more relevant tyre testing if it is to develop solid and reliable tyres for the 2014 season.
Coulthard wrote:There is no doubt that the spectacle F1 is producing now is far better than the days when we would go off in grid order and that would pretty much be the race result. People have short memories, but those days were really not very long ago at all.
I drove Jim Clark's 1963 Lotus 25 recently. That is an iconic car that took an iconic driver to his first world title, but there is no way on earth he would have been able to push flat out throughout a race. He'd have wrecked the gearbox or the brakes would have run out or something. There were so many compromises that we're just not aware of nowadays.
Fans ... feel they are seeing management rather than racing. They want to imagine the drivers are thrashing the cars from start to finish, even if that is not what is actually happening.
A final point. For me, there is a much bigger worry about the tyres than the complaints about racing - and that's the number of failures there have been this year.
I understand that Pirelli say they are being caused by cuts, but one of these days that failure is going to happen at a critical point on a race track in a critical racing situation.
I personally like Coulthard as a commentator, but i dont now if he also isnt influenced by the fact the be an ex RB man... they just seems to have a certain power to influence people...
I wonder how much longer Pirelli will endure the bad publicity they're getting from the folks that put them in their current predicament. Wouldn't it be fun for the teams to have a different tyre supplier next year on top of all the other changes?
Who said it? "Any press is good press."
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I wonder how much longer Pirelli will endure the bad publicity they're getting from the folks that put them in their current predicament. Wouldn't it be fun for the teams to have a different tyre supplier next year on top of all the other changes?
Who said it? "Any press is good press."
Louis B. Mayer I believe.
The way Pirelli is being used as a whipping boy is going to make it tough to find a new tire supplier when their contract expires. (Next season?)
The best answer would be multiple suppliers making competitive rubber.
Well it seems like the structure will be more 2011/12 which is going to boost a few teams and hurt a few others...
Can't say I'm happy with this. Changing the structure this far into the season is going to have serious ramifications for all teams going forward, some more than others.
personally I would expect the number of damaged tyres to have increased steadily in recent years ...just have a look at complexity of today's front wings , with a multitude of pieces attached [ and detached regularly despite the caution of drivers ]
keep hearing lots of cries for better racing , but , in reality , the front wing discourage this , what happened to alonso recently is a classic example ; and how many races have been spoiled by a car having been put out of a race by a touch from a front wing on a rear tyre
simple front wings , no wider than the inside of the front tyres , no stuck on bits , safer racing , better racing , cheaper racing , get rid of DRS as well and purer racing
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
Does this mean Lotus and Ferrari can now go and complain to Ecclestone and Pirelli and get the tyres changed again ?
Cause rly this is what has happend just switch out Lotus and Ferrari with Red Bull, and im not taking Red Bull cause i think they will win if we switch but cause they have been the loudest about it and even Dietrich going out in media, when we had 4 stop last year and Vettel won no one complained but this year...
So complain to win or? Or let Ferrari and Lotus drive on the same tyre and give Red Bull the new tyre, and lets see instead.
I really am sick of this discussion. I agree: the drivers should be able to fight for position without having to immediately steer into the pits for new rubber. BUT, to say that Pirelli has caused this is pretty silly. They fulfilled the requirements of the FIA - that is their responsibility. (Disclaimer - I do believe that their change to steel belting is causing the surface to delaminate so quickly once the tire is damaged/overheated, simply due to the surface texture of carbon fiber vs. that of steel wire). Simple fact: all teams knew what they were getting, at least to the same degree.
For me this is no different than saying that because one team's car is designed to be fast on low downforce tracks, we should cancel the races in Monaco, Albert's Park, Montreal or Hungary. Pretty rediculous.
You can't change the weather, or the surface or layout of the track, so you design your car to cope with these factors. But when a (rich) team or two fails to cope, they start a campaign to get the rules changed - is that the sportsmanship that we expect from the Formula 1? But this has now happened, and the teams that did a good job will be punished to benefit those that didn't.
Would we have this discussion if Caterham & Marussia were complaining?
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail
At sunday the situation was much more black and white for me. Bad tires, change, no tyre management,... . Just some keywords that crosses my mind about it.
With 2 days between, the situation became a quite a bit more grey: we indeed had 4 stops in 2011, which produced a great race (crucially though, the drivers could pushed more during their stints). Some people also pointed out that racing always held a degree of restrain on ultimate pace. Not only tires were holding the driver back in the past, mechanical uncertainty too did.
Yet we have this discussion. Why?
I think it's due formula 1 changed. Back in 60's-70's-80's it was alot more drama. Much more uncertainty, so many variables, in short much more tension. The drivers were gods, their cars their weapons and the circuit were they fought for rule over Olympus. Such was the feeling among the fans.
But nowadays, that changed. Drivers are much more like mortals. Fans look to them like they are gladiators fighting it out in Rome. Viewers in Rome were pampered and were only satisfied when blood was spoiled. Such is also the case today: people don't care anymore about the variables. They want to see real action on the circuit.
F1 should also adapt then to this. After all, it stands or falls with the fans and the people who pay to watch the race, directly through tickets, or indirectly through TV channels who see it as a good medium to attract people. F1 needs to give on to the demands.
Now, F1 tries to do so. They want to increase the show, give it a more attractive look. They tried that with putting emphasis on tyres. Which in itself is a good thing: it improves racing. Tyre preservation is a big part of racing and should not be discounted.
But...
does tyre management increase the show? It is not sensational to see drivers hold back because they have to preserve tyres. Like said above, tyre management is a part of racing, but people don't care about that anymore. They want to see rough battles, wheel banging, potentionally crashes. That is what show holds for them. While we cannot allow crashes for obvious reasons, F1 should make work of it to scrap the parts out the racing that just is not attractive to people. Yes, it was there all along, but it is not something that works in these times.
Does that mean no pitstops? No, pitstops potentionally allow for strategic variation that in turn allows person to battle eachother. We can all remember Silverstone last year where Webber was pushing like hell in the closing stages to get to Alonso and eventually overtake Alonso. That is something we as fan describe as a show and is exciting. That is the idea F1 should cling on to. It's different to what F1 used to be, but its nothing more then adapting to a new situation. Like everything else, F1 needs to evolve to survive. Simple as that. The environment changed, and it demands less tyre management now. The logical evolution is towards less tyre management, without loosing the tactical enjoyment pitstops bring.
Last edited by turbof1 on 14 May 2013, 17:03, edited 1 time in total.
CBeck113 wrote:I really am sick of this discussion. I agree: the drivers should be able to fight for position without having to immediately steer into the pits for new rubber. BUT, to say that Pirelli has caused this is pretty silly. They fulfilled the requirements of the FIA - that is their responsibility. (Disclaimer - I do believe that their change to steel belting is causing the surface to delaminate so quickly once the tire is damaged/overheated, simply due to the surface texture of carbon fiber vs. that of steel wire). Simple fact: all teams knew what they were getting, at least to the same degree.
For me this is no different than saying that because one team's car is designed to be fast on low downforce tracks, we should cancel the races in Monaco, Albert's Park, Montreal or Hungary. Pretty rediculous.
You can't change the weather, or the surface or layout of the track, so you design your car to cope with these factors. But when a (rich) team or two fails to cope, they start a campaign to get the rules changed - is that the sportsmanship that we expect from the Formula 1? But this has now happened, and the teams that did a good job will be punished to benefit those that didn't.
Would we have this discussion if Caterham & Marussia were complaining?
Sooner or later they'll realize that manipulating competition, no matter how pure the intent, always brings unintended consequences creating bigger problems.
If you look carefully in the picture with Ecclestone, Horner, Wolf and Hembery....It look like a job interview...Paul Hembery under stress...feel sorry for him
turbof1 wrote:It's different to what F1 used to be, but its nothing more then adapting to a new situation. Like everything else, F1 needs to evolve to survive. Simple as that.
Pondering is good. I enjoyed this post, but I'm not sure about this bit. It is what F1 used to be, but it appears unsubtle in its current incarnation.
As for others decrying mid season changes and manipulating the competition, that's nothing new either. We only have to go back 10 months to find the last mid-season change (off throttle blowing).
turbof1 wrote:It's different to what F1 used to be, but its nothing more then adapting to a new situation. Like everything else, F1 needs to evolve to survive. Simple as that.
I enjoyed this post, but I'm not sure about this bit. It is what F1 used to be, but it appears unsubtle in its current incarnation.
Yes I might have been a bit unclear on that (thanks Richard, I'll edit my post)). I was getting that F1 should evolve to less tyre management, which I duly accept is a part of racing, but just isn't appealing anymore.
When looking at this midseason change, I can much more agree with it then last year's. We had tyres blowing up; that had to be changed. Of course some teams will be disadvantaged and of course it's not fair for them, but we have to keep safety in check. And we of course don't really know how much they will be affected. Both Lotus and Ferrari alsohad last year a great tyre wear pattern (Ferrari more towards the end). WIth tyres more moving to that year, I don't think they are going to be so much disadvantaged. We'll see.
What i dont understand still tho is why the championship leader and only team to win two races this year (before this race) are complaining the loudest ? Not bashing them, but i just dont see it...
Also IF we would get a dominating team after this change, any team, is that gonna be more fun or less fun then what we have today or had this weekend to be correct ?
Huntresa wrote:What i dont understand still tho is why the championship leader and only team to win two races this year (before this race) are complaining the loudest ? Not bashing them, but i just dont see it...
Also IF we would get a dominating team after this change, any team, is that gonna be more fun or less fun then what we have today or had this weekend to be correct ?
they just seems to have a certain power to influence people... 
