Pirelli 2013

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Ferrari2183
Ferrari2183
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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VIZSLA wrote:
Ferrari2183 wrote:This tyre debacle is turning into a real life comedy.

Ferrari, Lotus and Force India have rejected Pirelli's proposal. They insist that fundamental changes only be allowed for safety reasons and there is no safety issue as evidenced by Di Resta's failure at 220kph.

It would now seem that the tyres remain as is.

Source

Maybe someone here can offer a detailed translation.

I'll still wait for official word.
I'm gonna need more popcorn. This is getting interesting.
And funny.
This is going to get ugly I believe.

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turbof1
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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And pathetically sad. F1 managed to screw up the screw up.
#AeroFrodo

CBeck113
CBeck113
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Joined: 17 Feb 2013, 19:43

Re: Pirelli 2013

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Then here's something to laugh about before the tears start to flow...
http://myinnerchild.lolspots.com/970536-whoa
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

VIZSLA
VIZSLA
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Joined: 13 Jun 2012, 14:12
Location: Boston/Sarasota

Re: Pirelli 2013

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CBeck113 wrote:Then here's something to laugh about before the tears start to flow...
http://myinnerchild.lolspots.com/970536-whoa
As they say in France "laugh to keep from crying".

For a billion dollar sport there are still a lot of Yahoos at the top. Seems Bernie remains a used car dealer at heart.

Richard
Richard
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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I'm normally loathe to post long quotes, but Bernie talking common sense is so rare that's its worth repeating in all its glory.....
F1.com wrote:Q: The heated discussions about tyres seem to have occupied a huge part of the season so far - culminating in four pit stops for most drivers in Barcelona. Now, from Canada onwards, it seems the goal is to make tyres last longer. How could it come so far?

Ecclestone: I asked Pirelli to make tyres that would not complete 50 percent of a race - meaning we need pit stops. And that’s what they did. It is very, very difficult to predict and say these tyres will last 15 or 20 percent of the race because each circuit is different, we are facing very different temperatures, the cars are different, and last but not least each driver has a different driving style. In the times when Niki was racing his biggest concern was looking after the gearbox and the brakes - not the tyres. Then we got away from that and the drivers didn’t have to think about anything. Now they have to use their brains and start thinking about how to win races.

Lauda: As an ex-driver I can say that Pirelli’s goal was to have the first pit stop after 12 to 15 laps, but with the different factors that Bernie has just explained they sometimes last only four laps. Three pit stops maximum works. That’s it. If you have four stops - and some tyres only lasting four laps - that’s the wrong direction. Now we will have a change from Canada onwards.

Ecclestone: The easiest thing for Pirelli would be to produce tyres that you put on at the first race of the season and take off at the last. That would be easy, easy.
I think he's summed up the situation perfectly.

Hobbs04
Hobbs04
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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With regards to these tires, what kind of compromises are the teams making on setup? Another question, how much time is available with an optimum quali suspension setup for mechanical grip. Are we talking a couple tenths or full second?

Watching Mercedes put it on pole 3x, are they just grabbing headlines by setting their car specifically for one lap pace? It kind of reminds me of teams back in the refueling era running low on fuel, putting a car on the front row, and pitting first or second lap. It seemed Toyota did that once before.

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strad
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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I have said in the past and I think it's time again..
Since the FIA want to hold sway over every aspect and dimension of the cars, they should mandate a spec compound as well.
Personally I think they should be able to solicit tires from whatever company wants to work with them and supply them with tires. Dunlops on the Lotus..Michelin on Merc and McLaren,,what ever they want...soft hard..One stop,,,five stops.
edit
but then I think the should be able to run I6 ..V6..V8..V12..inline...Veed...flat...just give them a CC number.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

VIZSLA
VIZSLA
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Location: Boston/Sarasota

Re: Pirelli 2013

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strad wrote:I have said in the past and I think it's time again..
Since the FIA want to hold sway over every aspect and dimension of the cars, they should mandate a spec compound as well.
Personally I think they should be able to solicit tires from whatever company wants to work with them and supply them with tires. Dunlops on the Lotus..Michelin on Merc and McLaren,,what ever they want...soft hard..One stop,,,five stops.
edit
but then I think the should be able to run I6 ..V6..V8..V12..inline...Veed...flat...just give them a CC number.
Good ideas but I'd rather a fuel limit than a displacement cap.

Unfortunately the engines designed for next year's specs are too far along and they'll be around for a while to come.

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Cam
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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Ecclestone : I asked Pirelli to make tyres that would not complete 50 percent of a race - meaning we need pit stops
So if this whole ridiculous saga is just to have pit stops - then rule the teams have to stop. Problem solved. Make everlasting tyres and mandate that the teams, depending on track, must stop X times, each time putting on new everlasting tyres - seems that would be easy. No deflating tyres, no degrading issues, great brand exposure, multiple stops - no whinging or complaining from anyone about tyres.
Ecclestone: The easiest thing for Pirelli would be to produce tyres that you put on at the first race of the season and take off at the last. That would be easy, easy.
It is easy. All this Pirelli garbage is simply to bunch up the field - nothing more. There are better ways to achieve this. This issue is easily solved and removes all this trouble, cost, time and effort wasting - for nothing.
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MOWOG
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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Make everlasting tyres and mandate that the teams, depending on track, must stop X times, each time putting on new everlasting tyres
I think I made a similar suggestion around here recently. The beauty of this plan is it would allow the drivers to race flat out in between the mandated pit stops. The biggest winners would be the fans! =D>
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.

Richard
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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Racing would become a rather long procession. F1 needs variety in performance and strategy so we have a competition of guile, wit and engineering as well as machismo.

Ferrari2183
Ferrari2183
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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richard_leeds wrote:Racing would become a rather long procession. F1 needs variety in performance and strategy so we have a competition of guile, wit and engineering as well as machismo.
This is the way I see it too. F1 has for too long been very easy for the drivers. Drive flat out and worry about nothing...

Now they have to think their way through a race. As far as I'm concerned Pirelli has been a God send and they're certainly not responsible for the state of F1.

A major overhaul of the entire formula is needed though, specifically the reliance on aero.

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MOWOG
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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Racing would become a rather long procession.
I disagree. Having decent tires that allowed the drivers to actually RACE, rather then traipse daintily around asking their pits if it is is OK to take the fight to a driver ahead would do wonders for the sport. For one thing, it would eliminate the mounds of rolled up rubber lurking just off the racing line. That clag, as David Hobbes calls it, means a driver dare not attempt to find a different racing line, for fear of spinning off into the weeds. Eliminate the clag and you open up the possibility of using the entire track, which could enable all sorts of bold driving. It would allow drivers to actually brake effectively off line into turns and who knows what that might lead to!? \:D/
A major overhaul of the entire formula is needed though, specifically the reliance on aero.
Could not agree more. Aero is boring. Much if not all the flapdoodle about tires, KERS and DRS results directly from the enormous downforce generated by aero. I notice watching V8 SuperCars last weekend that they seem to put on a pretty good race using no external aero devices other than a rear wing on the deck lid. IndyCar also seems to make do quite nicely with a modest aero package.

Other than providing inspiration to generations of inner city youths who like to add "aero" packages to their 14 year old Civics for the stop light grand prix, aero means nothing to those watching the race. But it, above all things, has led to the ruination of the sport.

Here's an idea. Delete the aero and you can dispense with all the gimmicks designed to promote passing. The passing will happen without artificial inducement and we can finally get back to watching racing again, instead of speculating endlessly about whether the new floor on the Caterham or the new diffuser on the Marusia will transform either into contenders. It would also allow Adrian Newey to retire gracefully from the sport and apply his prodigious body of knowledge to other areas where aero really IS important - like aircraft design! :wink:

And for those who would like to see some sort of open engine formula limited only by fuel flow or air inlet size or some other constraint that would allow engineers to experiment with a range of engine choices, I echo the words of that famous statesman and eloquent exponent of freedom around the globe, President George W. Bush, to wit: "Bring it ON!" [-o<
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.

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Kiril Varbanov
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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MOWOG wrote:Aero is boring
It is certainly not. I have dozens of books on the matter, magazines and have visited most of the meaningful speeches for F1 Aero designers and I can put money that aero is not boring. OK, well, at least for me, apparently.

Aside from the road relevance of aerodynamics, this is one of the fascinating bits that makes distinct appearance of Formula 1. The rest is just customer cars. I'm not saying that the regular viewer must understand it, it just has to be there.

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turbof1
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Re: Pirelli 2013

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To be honest, I find aero fascinating too. Certainly more then tyre management.

Road car relevance is irrelevant anyway, simply because road cars are NOT for racing, neither are the roads themselves. If road cars didn't had speed limits and all roads were smooth, expect to have all cars diffusers and wings.
#AeroFrodo