Pirelli 2013

[SectorOne]

Didn't the FIA stipulate any tyre changes could only occur for safety? Didn't the FIA also state the delaminations did not fall under a safety scenario?

But again, did they not give Pirelli the goahead with Mercedes to run their ´13 car testing various different compounds for 1000km assuming they fullfilled their part of the agreement?

[MOWOG]

I wonder if the Pirelli/Merc test explains the appearance of this in Barcelona ...

Pray tell, what the heck IS that thing?

[Cam]

Didn't the FIA stipulate any tyre changes could only occur for safety? Didn't the FIA also state the delaminations did not fall under a safety scenario?

As far as I know, they actually stated they encouraged a solution for the delaminations, implying they see it as a safety concern.

Sources have revealed that the governing body has told Pirelli that it is happy to accept - and is indeed keen for - alterations necessary to prevent a repeat of the rear tyre delaminations that have struck at the last few events.

Sources. Nothing in writing or public comment.

This is from the published email.

"Pirelli is entitled under the terms of their agreement with the FIA to offer teams 1000km of tyre testing, subject to each team being treated equally," said the email.

"However there are no provisions within the Sporting Regulations for such testing to take place in-season.

"[FOTA has] spoken with Charlie [Whiting] to confirm the process going forward, and there are two options: 1. ALL teams want to take up Pirelli's offer and this is communicated to the FIA who will amend the Sporting Regulations; or 2. The test takes place out of season (and then the testing agreement comes into play)."

A current car can be used, if ALL teams say yes, and/or once the regs are adjusted. Have they been?

[Richard]

I wonder if the Pirelli/Merc test explains the appearance of this in Barcelona ...

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/580/mercedes1w.jpg

Pray tell, what the heck IS that thing?

It was a camera that appeared on the W04 front wing in FP @ Barcelona. Probably an IR camera pointing at the tyres.

[Cam]

Didn't the FIA stipulate any tyre changes could only occur for safety? Didn't the FIA also state the delaminations did not fall under a safety scenario?

As far as I know, they actually stated they encouraged a solution for the delaminations, implying they see it as a safety concern.

The FIA reject Pirelli's proposal to go back to last year's tyres - Another part of the rules, article 12.5.2, gives the FIA leeway to ask the tyre supplier to change the tyre specification if it proves to be "technically unsuitable", but the governing body does not consider this to apply in this case.

the FIA clearly think the tyres are 'technically suitable' otherwise they would have said "the tyres are technically unsuitable". I am unsure how else to read into that. FIA say the tyres are ok?

[SectorOne]

A current car can be used, if ALL teams say yes, and/or once the regs are adjusted. Have they been?

They don´t have to say yes, they just have to give an answer, yes or no.

Basically given equal opportunity. If they have, well this is what FIA is trying to figure out right now.

[Cam]

A current car can be used, if ALL teams say yes, and/or once the regs are adjusted. Have they been?

They don´t have to say yes, they just have to give an answer, yes or no.

Basically given equal opportunity. If they have, well this is what FIA is trying to figure out right now.

Edit: changed to clarify better - read the bold part - that implies a "no' will not suffice, does it not?
Edit 2: to be really clear - not receiving a "yes" from ALL TEAMS, would also stop the test, does it not?

"Pirelli is entitled under the terms of their agreement with the FIA to offer teams 1000km of tyre testing, subject to each team being treated equally," said the email.

"However there are no provisions within the Sporting Regulations for such testing to take place in-season.

"[FOTA has] spoken with Charlie [Whiting] to confirm the process going forward, and there are two options: 1. ALL teams want to take up Pirelli's offer and this is communicated to the FIA who will amend the Sporting Regulations; or 2. The test takes place out of season (and then the testing agreement comes into play)."

A current car can be used, if ALL teams say yes, and/or once the regs are adjusted. Have they been?

[SectorOne]

Charlie Whiting has said many things in the past that then FIA turned on it´s head.
And he´s also just a Race Director, Safety Delegate and head of F1 technical department.

And what he says contradict what the FIA press release say.
The FIA press release never mentioned that all teams had to say yes. They just had to be given equal opportunity.


I´ll wait for the next FIA press release then take his words.

[Cam]

Charlie Whiting has said many things in the past that then FIA turned on it´s head.

Like what? I've been kind enough to trawl through the web'a'net to supply you with some evidence - how's about returning the favour? Give me 2 examples.

The FIA press release never mentioned that all teams had to say yes. They just had to be given equal opportunity.

Sounds like you work for Pirelli.

Peter Windsor on The Flying Lap (did you watch it - it's on this Forum - it's quite good) - approx 3:28 in:

"now I've done a bit of a phone around today and yesterday amongst various teams spokesman and they've all said "that's new's to us".

Does that sound like an equal opportunity? Or are you suggesting he's mistaken?

Edit: removed a non-constructive word

[turbof1]

Very interesting piece on f1fanatic:

http://www.f1technical.net/news/18452

Pirelli now specifically mentions the existance of communication in the form of emails, between mercedes and the fia regarding the use of 2013 car. If that is true, and I think it is, then the use of the 2013 car was approved.

[Cam]

Very interesting piece on f1fanatic:

http://www.f1technical.net/news/18452

Pirelli now specifically mentions the existance of communication in the form of emails, between mercedes and the fia regarding the use of 2013 car. If that is true, and I think it is, then the use of the 2013 car was approved.

Wow - this get's better.

Pirelli did not ask in any way that a 2013 car be used

So Pirelli are saying 'Merc turned up with a 2013, that we didn't ask for'...... oh my.

[SectorOne]

Like what? I've been kind enough to trawl through the web'a'net to supply you with some evidence - how's about returning the favour? Give me 2 examples.

Off the top of my head Lotus front suspension. Charlie said it´s ok then FIA banned it.
There´s probably more if you dig some.

Peter Windsor on The Flying Lap (did you watch it - it's on this Forum - it's quite good) - approx 3:28 in:
"now I've done a bit of a phone around today and yesterday amongst various teams spokesman and they've all said "that's new's to us".

Does that sound like an equal opportunity? Or are you suggesting he's mistaken?

Edit: removed a non-constructive word

Yes i watched the show but maybe you miss-understand me. I never said they did get equal opportunity.
I said that was one of the criteria FIA themselves said needed to be fullfilled in order for Merc to test with Pirelli.

Again, the FIA said that it would be totally ok for Mercedes to join Pirelli for a test with their 2013 car if those two criteria was fullfilled.

If they were fullfilled is what is being decided. Regardless of what teams say to people publically.

Here´s a tweet from Peter,

Pirelli: we never requested a 2013 Merc. The use of that car was the subject of a direct discussion between @MERCEDESAMGF1 and the FIA.

[turbof1]

Very interesting piece on f1fanatic:

http://www.f1technical.net/news/18452

Pirelli now specifically mentions the existance of communication in the form of emails, between mercedes and the fia regarding the use of 2013 car. If that is true, and I think it is, then the use of the 2013 car was approved.

Wow - this get's better.

Pirelli did not ask in any way that a 2013 car be used

So Pirelli are saying 'Merc turned up with a 2013, that we didn't ask for'...... oh my.

No its more like 'we didn't mentioned the specific need of a 2013 car, but it suits what we asked: a recent car.' What this really means is pirelli pushing off responsibility, but at the same defending mercedes because they mentioned communication about it between the fia and merc. If any of those emails fia agreed with the use of that car, and because we are talking about written language in which such a thing will be a black and white case, I think the fia did.

[Cam]

Here we go again.

Hembrey: In March 2012, Pirelli sent an email to all the teams, FIA and FOM, inviting the teams to indicate their availability for testing for the development of tyres for 2013

Doesn't that contradict:

The tyres used were not from the current championship but belonged to a range of products still being developed in view of an eventual renewal of the supply contract. .....were offered the opportunity of participating in tests for the development of tyres for 2014

Oh my. So the teams were invited in 2012 to test 2013 tyres, when the test actually tested 2014 tyres....... wtf is going on!?

[ecapox]

This is getting odd.

So, according to Pirelli, they just asked for a car that was comparable to the current cars. They then stepped out of the loop and according to them they have emails between the FIA and Mercedes that OK'd the use of the 2013 car. Furthermore they then explain how no tire was representative to what they are using for 2013 nor what they PLAN on using for 2013. The tires were unmarked and Mercedes didnt know what was tested.

So, i'd gather that Pirelli is good to go. All bases covered from their standpoint.

If Mercedes was in direct talks with the FIA to use their 2013 car, and they OK'd it, this is a open and shut case. Or a "Why was this case ever opened to begin with?"

The only issue here that i can see is that while Mercedes probably was outlawed from testing new parts and such, they still had AMPLE mileage to work on car setup, which is an advantage, as well as monitor every aspect of the car. 1000 kms is a lot and while i'd agree that different tires make different things happen to the rest of the car, the track time in a time where track time is limtied by rules is a HUGE advantage.

I'd be curious to see what kinds of "appendages" appeared on the car during this test. Air flow measurements, tire temp measurements, etc.