Pirelli 2013

[turbof1]

Full story here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107780

The things I get out of that is that they tried out tyres that solve the delamination problem, but will not be the same solution tried out in canada (perhaps for 2014). They tried out 12 different solutions, in combination with what hembery previously said, those must have been divided over 30-35 sets of tyres.

[diffuser]

I just really dislike what Pirelli/Merc did this, I feel it's unsportsmen like. I dislike all the complaining by Red Bull. The tires are what they are for everyone, Get over it! The fact that you can't lap as quickly as Lotus and Ferrari on high speed circuits is just proof that their cars are faster with the given rules.

Red bull just seems to complain all the time. Sore winners. When they didn't run KERS, you'd often hear Vettl Complain that the other guys just pushed the button. Then there was the whole Diffuser mess in 2011. Last year was the one of the few exceptions when they just put their heads down and worked it out. Don't get me wrong, I like Adrian Newey. I even like it when talent like Newey gets spread around and not all pooled at Ferrari or McLaren. Makes for interesting racing. But the complaining or the politics, whatever you want to call, it pissed me off. Man up and shut up!!!

You hate RedBull, we get that - but they're not the only ones complaining. And while you have a point that the tyres 'were' the same for everyone - that seems it is no longer the status quo. Taking away Mercs perceived advantage with this 'testing' incident, if 'new' compounds are introduced this year, then your argument is moot - as the cars will need further design changes to best make use of the new compounds - and one team may have already used those tyres. Some of these cars are carry over from 2012 and major changes simply are not possible under the regs. So it's conceivable that any mid year changes will favour one team or another - again. Hardly equitable - as the FIA state it should be.

Don't get hung up on who's complaining - look at why.

I don't hate Red Bull, I actually like them especially Webber and Newey. The owner and Vettl, not so much. I'm on the fence with Horner. Although there is no denying their talent. Ferrari used to be like that ... amazingly, they've changed.

I agree with you on the tires changes, I think that's almost a done deal. To get all the teams to agree to use the new tires, the changes will certainly need to be mundane.


The RB complaining that I was talking about was when they've been saying that they can't run at any more than 80%. I agree with them about the Merc/Pirelli testing. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[lebesset]

maybe I have missed something here , but for me the important things in the statement from pirelli to the FIA are

they tested 12 different STRUCTURES as prototypes for 2014
only one of them used kevlar , the material they propose to use for the 2103 modification
the compound used was the same for all structures
the compound used has never been used for a race tyre
the modified tyre proposed for canada has never been tried by any team

[turbof1]

There is more:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107784

Hembery confirmed that another tyre test had also been conducted with another team.

This is believed to be Ferrari, using an old-specification car as permitted by the F1 sporting regulations.

But Hembery claimed the details of this test could not be disclosed.

"Yes, we have done with another test, another 1000kms," said Hembery, when asked if any such tests have been conducted.

"That [the details] remain confidential, but the FIA were informed as they were with the Mercedes test."

Guessing they followed exactly the same procedures as with this "unknown" team, with the sole difference a 2011 car was used, I think we can scrap the argument of "every team be given the oppertunity". If you don't condemn it in this case, then they shouldn't do it either in Mercedes' case.

[diffuser]

Back in the days when testing was fairly unlimited we had as many if not more gearbox and engine breakdowns. It is a consequence that components always have a chance to fail, no matter the abundance of testing.

I don't think you can compare today back to when they did almost unlimited testing. The engines/gearboxes are pretty much the same as they've been since 2006. That's alot of time to get the bugs out. Back in the day the engines and gearboxes could evolved at the same pace that aero does today (changes at almost every race).

The same? Where have you been? Did you take a good look at what teams like williams did to their gearboxes the last couple of years?

I guess your right there. I forgot about that. Although I could argue that changing the shape isn't really changing the contents, I won't. The do also change gear ratios for every race.

What I was thinking was that the gearbox must last 5 races. Basically you have 4 gear boxes for the whole year. Unless you don't finish a race. So I guess that would allow the opportunity to change the gearbox if you have a gearbox problem and can have the change put in before the next race. Anyways, that my point. Limited changes to gearboxs. Engines, You need approval from the FIA.

[turbof1]

I guess your right there. I forgot about that. Although I could argue that changing the shape isn't really changing the contents, I won't. The do also change gear ratios for every race.

That is mainly because there simply isn't more to be found under current regulations. F1 gearboxes in concept already are near perfect, being seamless. The only thing that there is left are weight and volume decrease. But yes, you are right they haven't really changed in concept.

[Richard]

So we're still no clearer about the "equal opportunity" bit.

I'm also puzzled why they refuse to confirm the Ferarri test.

[WhiteBlue]

The one thing that becomes clear from today's Pirelli communication is that Merc had no advantage from the test with regard to 2013 or 2014 championship tyres. The test simply used a compound not used in any championship and the main variation were construction details that will all be optional in 2014. Merc will have no means to take any profit from them. Later in the year or early in 2014 Pirelli will do systematical tests of 2014 tyres with all the teams to determine the final construction configuration and the compound range that they are going to do. If the reported circumstances are correct there is very little justification for the huge outcry that we have heard from the media and the fans. Just my personal opinion. We are dealing with a storm in a tea cup because there is the political game for the next tyre contract that is played in the back ground.

[Pup]

By far, the most interesting thing said in the press conference...

Paul Hembery did say during the teleconference, he believes the cars will wheel spin in 4th and 5th gear under the new V6 turbo regulations...

Should be fun.

[ESPImperium]

What i think needs to happen, is that the confidentiality clauses in Pirelli contracts needs to be banned. After each test, Pirelli and the Team have to post on their web pages, what car and chassis was used and how many laps were done each and every day at what track.

Also allow teams to do the test with a current car needs to be clarified. If anything for me it needs to be a 1 year old car at the oldest. Ideally id make it with a current car and with test, reserve or development drivers and every team has to make do at least 1 future tyre test a year, and to make it totally transparent, Pirelli and the teams need to do it around a track where more than a single team is testing,

Tyre testing needs to serve a purpose for Pirelli, but id also like it to serve the purpose of giving an extra 3 days per team for getting TD/RD/DD in the car as this will prepare them better for stepping into the car, test drivers can gain the knowledge they need, reserve for if they are needed to jump into the car at a moments notice and development drivers in order to give feedback on a teams simulator models and such. However, Pirelli must test with no more than 3 teams at a single test so as to give them 4 or 5 opportunities per year to test new rubber.

Id also make it that no more than 15 different structures can be used, but the tyre supplier(s) has to throw in present tyres as well in order to provide a constant as lets face it the teams will be taking away data that can be used for the next year, and if that can give a small team an advantage to step 3 or 4 places up, good, or if it can take a mid pack team to a race win or two, there has been some good. BUT... Id make it that teams cannot use any development parts, everything that is used must be a spec that has been raced already in the season, no testing of new aero parts or new gearbox or suspension parts. A new steering wheel layout for a driver would be acceptable for me, but not a new aero or any new mechanical parts.

Things need to be clarified, and this is what is needed, clarification of the running of a present car and the clarification or transparent-ation of when a team has tested.

Lets see how things pan out, i think Mercedes and Pirelli are both on damage limitation mode and the FIA are also using them as a test case somewhere along the line, and also to show that In Season Testing can still be done in a cost controlled manner and also to test out to see who sets the rules out in F1, FOM or FIA and wether or not Pirelli and its contract can supersede FOM or FIA in being able to test.

There is a power play at large in F1 at present, and the dice rolled in it are about to stop somewhere.

[Tim.Wright]

If the reported circumstances are correct there is very little justification for the huge outcry that we have heard from the media and the fans.

The outcry is justified because they got 1000km of testing in a current car.

Forget the tyre testing... if they really tested 30+ experimental specs for next year's tyres I can safely say that the data on the tyres is practically useless to Mercedes. Too many variables.

The issue is the 1000km of testing that they put on their 2013 drivetrain, brakes, aerodynamics, cooling and KERs systems.

Also, the fact that Pirelli sat on this for a week before answering with a short novel leaves me to suspect that the whole story they spun today is fabricated BS. Paul was dodging questions a week ago at Monaco, now he is telling all... really doesn't make sense.

[Jersey Tom]

By far, the most interesting thing said in the press conference...

Paul Hembery did say during the teleconference, he believes the cars will wheel spin in 4th and 5th gear under the new V6 turbo regulations...

Should be fun.

Are the cars going to have that much more power, or are the tires going to be that much of bricks?

[SectorOne]

By far, the most interesting thing said in the press conference...

Paul Hembery did say during the teleconference, he believes the cars will wheel spin in 4th and 5th gear under the new V6 turbo regulations...

Should be fun.

Are the cars going to have that much more power, or are the tires going to be that much of bricks?

Torque output should be quite significantly higher i think.
But the tires will probably also be sh*t

[MOWOG]

There is a power play at large in F1 at present, and the dice rolled in it are about to stop somewhere.

Yup. When analyzing any aspect of Formula One, a person must be sure to always evaluate the political ramifications inherent in the background. And that, more than anything else, means understanding what actions Bernie is or isn't taking. Watching Formula One is a little like watching the US Congress, except with 11 parties instead of just 2. The permutations, computations and calculations are dizzyingly complex and convoluted.

Bernie is as close as the sport gets to a modern day Louis XIV.

[SectorOne]

I´m guessing a comparison of the data or something like that between Mercedes and Ferrari, should be interesting.

The FIA said on Friday that it wants to hear from Ferrari as well as Mercedes as part of its ongoing Pirelli test investigation.

Mercedes could potentially be sanctioned by the governing body's International Tribunal after it emerged at the Monaco Grand Prix that they had conducted a 1,000km test of Pirelli tyres in Spain earlier this month.

Along with Red Bull, Ferrari protested against the test in the Principality, despite having themselves conducted a similar test for the Italian tyre manufacturer between the Bahrain and Spanish Grands Prix.

The difference between the two, however, is that the Ferrari test was conducted with a two-year-old car. Their belief is that, because the Mercedes test used a 2013 car, then they have breached the FIA's Sporting Regulations.

A statement released on the governing body's website read: 'The FIA has asked Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 and Scuderia Ferrari Team which have taken part in tyre tests in the 2013 season to reply to a disciplinary inquiry in pursuance of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules.

'This follows the Stewards' Report from the Monaco Grand Prix and represents supplementary information required by the FIA in the light of the replies received from Pirelli, who were asked for clarifications on Tuesday May 28th.'

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... li-testing