Pirelli 2013

[MOWOG]

So, diffusor, you apparently would be comfortable if Formula One had a regulation that required each driver to exit the car during a pit stop, run down the pit lane, turn around three times and kiss Charlie Whiting on the top of his head before resuming the race. Cuz after all, if its a regulation, then all the teams and drivers are obligated to comply with it and its just part of the show, right?

In semantics, the above is known as the "reductio ad absurdium". It is meant to be hyperbole in order to make a larger point. Which is that Formula One is well on its way to becoming more of a circus/carnival and less of a sport.

[SectorOne]

+1 but tomorrow

[stefan_]

Pirelli and Mercedes

The Monaco Grand Prix Stewards raised in their report to the FIA an issue concerning a tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli with the participation of Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013[1].

The FIA requested clarifications from Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in this respect.

The FIA also asked questions to Scuderia Ferrari Team, which took part in a tyre testing with Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013.

The FIA requested all the other F1 Teams to provide the FIA with information they may have regarding any tests carried out by Pirelli during the 2013 season.

In the light of all the replies received and in view of the information gathered during this inquiry, the President of the FIA, acting as the FIA prosecuting body, has decided:

● To close the case as regard to Scuderia Ferrari Team considering that its participation in a tyre testing organized by Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013 using for this purpose a 2011 car is not deemed to contravene the applicable FIA rules.

● To bring the case concerning the tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013 before the FIA International Tribunal because it results from the inquiry that the conditions of this testing may constitute a breach of the applicable FIA rules.

The FIA International Tribunal is called upon to make a decision in compliance with the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules.

[1] The Stewards' report follows the protests made by Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Ferrari Team on the occasion of the Monaco Grand Prix against Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 concerning its participation in the Barcelona tests (15-17 May 2013).

Source: FIA.com

[lebesset]

I'd think it's more like 1 runner blaming his shoes when another runner runs past him. It's amazing they can manage the Fuel! How is it they don't run out of Fuel ? Cause they Manage it.

No it´s calculated. It would be the same as Pirelli´s if the fuel starting to degrade in efficiency just because it´s one degree above the working temperature leaving the car with 50 horsepower less.

Why don't they carry enough fuel to go full out for the whole race?

Because the first thing that would go is.......drumrolls.......the tires...
Sometimes they bank on a safety car period and pay the price for it in the race but that´s different.

Why don't they complain about the 17K rev limit ?

Because it´s a regulation.

and create artificial engineering challenges

It´s actually the opposite. More regulations, less innovation and engineering challenges.

In my opinion the 2013 tires are no different than Double diffuser ban, 17k rev limiter, engine restrictions, 4 gearboxes per season, narrower rear wings

All regulations..
Where in the sporting or technical regulations can i read about how the Pirelli tires should act?

actually , irrespective of the tyres , the effect of carrying an extra 10Kg of fuel is acknowledge to be an average of 0.3 sec / lap

[WhiteBlue]

Not a big surprise in the decision to go before the tribunal. It means that the issue will stay with us for some more time. Also not surprising that Ferrari were cleared.

[SectorOne]

actually , irrespective of the tyres , the effect of carrying an extra 10Kg of fuel is acknowledge to be an average of 0.3 sec / lap

And why are you telling me that, what does it have to do with my post?

[CBeck113]

So, diffusor, you apparently would be comfortable if Formula One had a regulation that required each driver to exit the car during a pit stop, run down the pit lane, turn around three times and kiss Charlie Whiting on the top of his head before resuming the race. Cuz after all, if its a regulation, then all the teams and drivers are obligated to comply with it and its just part of the show, right?

In semantics, the above is known as the "reductio ad absurdium". It is meant to be hyperbole in order to make a larger point. Which is that Formula One is well on its way to becoming more of a circus/carnival and less of a sport.

Sorry, I can't read any opinion in diffusor's post, just the simple fact that the design was set for 2013 and all teams have to deal with it.

Do the tires alter the racing? yes (just like the rev limit, or "each driver to exit the car during a pit stop, run down the pit lane, turn around three times and kiss Charlie Whiting on the top of his head before resuming the race" would)
Negatively? For "real" F1 fans yes, for casual fans probably not.
Would the racing be better with the 2012 or 2011 tires? Maybe faster, but not necessarily better - but my crystal ball has been known to make mistakes .

My problem with the situation: certain teams are complaining so loudly to smokescreen their poor performance with the current tires. They knew what they were getting; some teams handled the situation, others did not. The crying should be focused on next year, and not on 2013. My €0.02

[Dragonfly]

Not a big surprise in the decision to go before the tribunal. It means that the issue will stay with us for some more time. Also not surprising that Ferrari were cleared.

Just to clear the ambiguity:
- Cleared because the bias of FIA towards Ferrari?
- Cleared because they conducted the test according to the rules?

It's inevitable that conspiracy theorists and too passionate fans will come with the first argument. My personal opinion is that Ferrari kept within the current rules as much as possible while providing a car and a driver for the Pirelli test. Unlike Mercedes.

[turbof1]

Not a big surprise in the decision to go before the tribunal. It means that the issue will stay with us for some more time. Also not surprising that Ferrari were cleared.

Just to clear the ambiguity:
- Cleared because the bias of FIA towards Ferrari?
- Cleared because they conducted the test according to the rules?

It's inevitable that conspiracy theorists and too passionate fans will come with the first argument. My personal opinion is that Ferrari kept within the current rules as much as possible while providing a car and a driver for the Pirelli test. Unlike Mercedes.

Anyone with a rational and objective view on the matter would conclude Ferrari did no wrong in this. Luckily, almost everybody here is capable of doing that.

[SectorOne]

Any rational and logical person would not conclude anything before an official FIA statement.

[Pierce89]

Any rational and logical person would not conclude anything before an official FIA statement.

Stefan posted a statement from FIA.com. Not good enough?

Oh and check the headline at the top of the page.

[turbof1]

That is wgy I said "almost" everyone .

I fear for Mercedes to be honest. The tribunal isn't about morals, ethics, reasoning, etc. It's there to see if the rules were applies correctly. It looks to me they will be very strict in that one.

The most frightening outcome for me would be that this oppertunity was not taken to take a look at the needs of f1. Clearly it is impossible to get the correct tyres without relevant track testing; politics need to be below the needs, not above it!

[FoxHound]

Any rational and logical person would not conclude anything before an official FIA statement.

Stefan posted a statement from FIA.com. Not good enough?

Oh and check the headline at the top of the page.

A tribunal has been called for Mercedes to appear.
No verdict has been met, so SectorOne is correct in saying wait for the official verdict.

It has also been said that Charlie Whiting had given the green light for Mercedes to use the W04. Mercedes will be using the emails as evidence against the FIA effectively. The point in question, is why Mercedes would use the W04 if it did not have the permission to do so.
The emails from the FIA where passed by both Mercedes and Pirelli management's respectively.
Ridiculous situation if true, whereby the governing body effectively will have to explain WHY this happened.

My view is that Mercedes will receive a warning, along with Pirelli or a suspended sentence. The real issue is whether Charlie Whiting keeps his job over this debacle.
Or maybe this is by design to get rid of Pirelli....or even to get shot of Brawn at Mercedes now that Lowe has taken up residence.

[Richard]

The "rational" person comment was about Ferrari, not Merc. We do have the final decision on that, and I think it is rational.

As for Merc, they had the FIA blessing. Of course that requires acknowledgement that the FIA had it in their power to allow the 2013 car. It'd be a mighty political fall out if the tribunal says the FIA acted outside its powers.

Then in addition to that, we have the row about transparency, and it appears that Pirelli were responsible for that.

It seems that the other teams are protesting about the transparency issues, not about Pirelli having access to a 2013 car - they would all want better tyre data from better testing.

Underlying all of this is the realpolitik of F1, that's an unwelcome unpredictable external influence on the outcome - just like the tyres!

[WhiteBlue]

Not a big surprise in the decision to go before the tribunal. It means that the issue will stay with us for some more time. Also not surprising that Ferrari were cleared.

Just to clear the ambiguity:
- Cleared because the bias of FIA towards Ferrari?
- Cleared because they conducted the test according to the rules?

It's inevitable that conspiracy theorists and too passionate fans will come with the first argument. My personal opinion is that Ferrari kept within the current rules as much as possible while providing a car and a driver for the Pirelli test. Unlike Mercedes.

I'm surprised that this innocent comment was even seen as ambiguous. The FiA in this case obviously investigated the Ferrari test only to apply the necessary diligence. Due to the known facts - which have been seen by the FiA and the public - the FiA came to the same conclusions that we all arrived at. The Ferrari test was not a possible infringement.

I believe that the decision by Todt and the FiA to have the international tribunal sit on this case is potentially motivated by three reasons:

• this could be a nice case to test the procedures and to be seen as fair and eqitable - compared to his predecessor
• it could be a good opportunity to promote Michelin vs Pirelli if Todt is still trying to help Michelin
• the alternative would involve greater risk of attracting confrontation and opposition to his candidacy for the next elections

I think there was enough reason to make the decision independent of the merits of the Red Bull and Ferrari complaints. So the decision to involve the tribunal will give very little clue about the possible outcome of the tribunal hearing.

Seen at face value there seem to be an infringement which would require some action by the tribunal. But the tribunal might find that those infringements were minor in gravity and that a potential gain for Mercedes was not substantial and the test not undertaken with malice.

In this case Merc could be getting away with a reprimand or a small punishment while the distortion of the rules would be cured by allowing additional testing to all teams who require it. I would be pleased if that is the outcome when we look at the verdict in two months time.