Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery has repeated at Korea that F1's sole tyre suppliers need to have more relevant tyre testing if it is to develop solid and reliable tyres for the 2014 season.
RedBull said no because they thought the test with a 2013 car was illegal. Regardless of what Pirelli says. RedBull had enough sense to stay well clear. Throwing your arms in the air because RedBull didn't want to break the rules... seriously.
But if the rule makers, the FIA, gives a demand/condition on which you can run the 2013 car, and that is fulfilled, then how is it illegal ? I mean since its demands/conditions from the FIA its like a get out of jail free card, since if its 100% that this happend and came from the FIA, neither Pirelli or Mercedes can be blamed.
To me it just feels like FIA got into a tangle they cant untangle.
Really!? You complained about RedBull. I gave you their reasons (since you couldn't decipher that from reading the report you posted a link too). It can't be any clearer as to why they declined.
RedBull said no because they thought the test with a 2013 car was illegal. Regardless of what Pirelli says. RedBull had enough sense to stay well clear. Throwing your arms in the air because RedBull didn't want to break the rules... seriously.
But if the rule makers, the FIA, gives a demand/condition on which you can run the 2013 car, and that is fulfilled, then how is it illegal ? I mean since its demands/conditions from the FIA its like a get out of jail free card, since if its 100% that this happend and came from the FIA, neither Pirelli or Mercedes can be blamed.
To me it just feels like FIA got into a tangle they cant untangle.
The FIA can't just say "go ahead and ignore the rules" if they want their premiere championship to have any credibility. I don't think any e-mail will be justification for ignoring the widely published sporting regs.
Last edited by Pierce89 on 09 Jun 2013, 09:50, edited 1 time in total.
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RedBull said no because they thought the test with a 2013 car was illegal. Regardless of what Pirelli says. RedBull had enough sense to stay well clear. Throwing your arms in the air because RedBull didn't want to break the rules... seriously.
But if the rule makers, the FIA, gives a demand/condition on which you can run the 2013 car, and that is fulfilled, then how is it illegal ? I mean since its demands/conditions from the FIA its like a get out of jail free card, since if its 100% that this happend and came from the FIA, neither Pirelli or Mercedes can be blamed.
To me it just feels like FIA got into a tangle they cant untangle.
Really!? You complained about RedBull. I gave you their reasons (since you couldn't decipher that from reading the report you posted a link too). It can't be any clearer as to why they declined.
I didnt post a link to anything and i did read what Marko said. And he doesnt actually say anything, just that they thought they would breach the rules and didnt wanna do that.
And from that answer we can assume Pirelli asked them, but didnt let on that the FIA made them ask everyone or ? Cause rly if Red Bull would have gotten the information from Pirelli that the FIA was OKing this with 2013 car if they asked everyone, you dont think they would have said yes then ?
RedBull said no because they thought the test with a 2013 car was illegal. Regardless of what Pirelli says. RedBull had enough sense to stay well clear. Throwing your arms in the air because RedBull didn't want to break the rules... seriously.
But if the rule makers, the FIA, gives a demand/condition on which you can run the 2013 car, and that is fulfilled, then how is it illegal ? I mean since its demands/conditions from the FIA its like a get out of jail free card, since if its 100% that this happend and came from the FIA, neither Pirelli or Mercedes can be blamed.
To me it just feels like FIA got into a tangle they cant untangle.
The FIA can't just say "go ahead and ignore the rules" if they want their premiere championship to have any credibility.
Yeah cause the FIA has credibility to lose right ? No but they can obv set demands to break rules
Horner : "The consent of all the teams should have been sought, which it wasn't, in order for a team to conduct tyre testing in a current car, with current drivers, on a current circuit with tyres that will be at the next grand prix."
Simply asking RedBull is not enough. ALL teams had to be asked, ALL teams had to APPROVE.
Stop trying to skew RedBull into being a bad boy here. It's Merc and Pirelli that have to answer, no one else.
Horner : "The consent of all the teams should have been sought, which it wasn't, in order for a team to conduct tyre testing in a current car, with current drivers, on a current circuit with tyres that will be at the next grand prix."
Simply asking RedBull is not enough. ALL teams had to be asked, ALL teams had to APPROVE.
Stop trying to skew RedBull into being a bad boy here. It's Merc and Pirelli that have to answer, no one else.
Im not trying to skew Red Bull into the bad boys, what are you reading m8 ? I just asked why they are complaining if they also were asked, didnt ask anything or do anything else. And that wasnt meant as anything, i would have asked the same thing if it was Mclaren, Ferrari etc.
And Not only Pirelli and Merc, the FIA has to be questioned too tbh, how they can set demands to ignore rules.
Horner : "The consent of all the teams should have been sought, which it wasn't, in order for a team to conduct tyre testing in a current car, with current drivers, on a current circuit with tyres that will be at the next grand prix."
Simply asking RedBull is not enough. ALL teams had to be asked, ALL teams had to APPROVE.
Stop trying to skew RedBull into being a bad boy here. It's Merc and Pirelli that have to answer, no one else.
Im not trying to skew Red Bull into the bad boys, what are you reading m8 ? I just asked why they are complaining if they also were asked, didnt ask anything or do anything else. And that wasnt meant as anything, i would have asked the same thing if it was Mclaren, Ferrari etc.
And Not only Pirelli and Merc, the FIA has to be questioned too tbh, how they can set demands to ignore rules.
One more time. RedBull are 'complaining' because they were offered an illegal test.
If the FIA turned up in a team meeting, with all the teams present, saying go ahead a run a 2013 car guys, then no issue. That never happened. It was a vague, underhanded attempt to loophole the rules - something RedBull are good at smelt a mile off. So how would you react being reading you were given the opportunity to break the rules, and said no, then made to look like whinger for it?
And it is also important how exactly they are asked - has the usage of the current car been mentioned. Which we do not know at the moment.
I am confused that at such high level circular letters have not been sent to ALL teams, describing the conditions of the test. There's something fishy in the whole affair and with all parties involved and I hope facts will surface at the IT meeting.
In my understanding such events must be sanctioned officially (in written form) by the FIA and all teams be informed, no matter the contractual rights of Pirelli to carry out tests. Any time a participant team is involved in any form the rest must be kept informed. Otherwise what's the sense of having a governing body?
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Cam wrote:One more time. RedBull are 'complaining' because they were offered an illegal test.
No they "believe" they were offered an illegal test and then turned it down.
Whether it actually was illegal you don´t know and i don´t know.
We can sit here and copy and paste quotes from every person in the paddock but we still won´t have probably 70% of all the information to really know what has happened.
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In Spain Merc might just as well have used rubber bands instead of tyres in the race.
Merc use a suspension system that affects the tyres differently than conventional suspension.
In Monaco Merc did rather better.
Just saying.
IMO the FIA demands on tyre supplies is a cobbled up joke.
It misdirects all areas of car development and forces the drivers to drive as if they were driving lorries with unstable loads.
It is the Fia that should be facing a tribunal not any of the teams.
Next year is going to be a disaster you can count on that.
This whole issue gets really strange. Actually the ones most to blame are FIA for giving allowance for breaking the rules and doing this in rather stupid way. Instead of letting Pirelli handle this sensitive matter, they should have defined and surveiled the test and most of all they should have negotiated this with all teams. Again a bad display of management of FIA... And I suppose again they will find a scapegoat.
Pirelli had nothing to lose so to them I guess they did what they that was best for them. You can't really blame them.
Merc I suppose really thought it was legal (not talking about sport ethics here, mind you) and they tried to grasp that straw seeing the test as a chance to work out their tire issues. Now even if the whole case is decided to be legal, it is quite some poker play by Merc and probably won't help their image.
RB on the other declined the test and later complained because they assumed the test is illegal and didn't want to be in the position that Merc is now. Although I wonder why they didn't issue an official complain or inquiry right after they received the test offer - but then again you can't really be mad at them for trying to wait until some competetor bites the foul fish and gets caught with their pants down.
I really hope Merc gets just a fine, all teams are allowed to run the same test and FIA gets told how to run things properly. How many times do we have to tolerate all these moronic screw-ups?
kaller wrote:Actually the ones most to blame are FIA for giving allowance for breaking the rules and doing this in rather stupid way. Instead of letting Pirelli handle this sensitive matter, they should have defined and surveiled the test and most of all they should have negotiated this with all teams. Again a bad display of management of FIA... And I suppose again they will find a scapegoat...I really hope Merc gets just a fine, all teams are allowed to run the same test and FIA gets told how to run things properly. How many times do we have to tolerate all these moronic screw-ups?
I think you are a bit blue eyed here. The FiA is dealing with the F1 conflicts at arms length and have tried to be rather neutral while the teams have been fighting out all this antagonism. They have no reason to wade into the conflict and promote one team or a tyre supplier over other competitors. In fact is was reported that the FiA would like to see Michelin making a bid for the next tyre contract. So they may have looked upon Pirelli's problems to do 2014 tyre testing with some sympathy to keep it a level contest between Pirelli and Michelin.
We do know that a 2014 tyre test with current 2013 machinery is legal if it is undertaken by Pirelli. They are allowed to test. So the matter for the tribunal is simply to decide whether the Barcelona test qualifies as a Pirelli test with Mercedes support or not. If they find that Mercedes themselves ran the test there will be punishment. But I have my doubts that Ross is so dumb to put himself at risk in such a way. He is an old fox in that business. He will have made sure that he had some circumstances in the test that make legal precedents applicable. He sounded awfully confident when he was officially commenting in the press conference. You do not speak that way unless you have a killer hand to uncover to speak in poker terms.
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kaller wrote:Actually the ones most to blame are FIA for giving allowance for breaking the rules and doing this in rather stupid way. Instead of letting Pirelli handle this sensitive matter, they should have defined and surveiled the test and most of all they should have negotiated this with all teams. Again a bad display of management of FIA... And I suppose again they will find a scapegoat...I really hope Merc gets just a fine, all teams are allowed to run the same test and FIA gets told how to run things properly. How many times do we have to tolerate all these moronic screw-ups?
I think you are a bit blue eyed here. The FiA is dealing with the F1 conflicts at arms length and have tried to be rather neutral while the teams have been fighting out all this antagonism. They have no reason to wade into the conflict and promote one team or a tyre supplier over other competitors. In fact is was reported that the FiA would like to see Michelin making a bid for the next tyre contract. So they may have looked upon Pirelli's problems to do 2014 tyre testing with some sympathy to keep it a level contest between Pirelli and Michelin.
Well but if FIA wanted to keep out of this, they should have kept themselves out of this. As soon as they answered Pirelli's inquiry in a positive? way they got involved. And I just don't understand when it is their task to make sure all rules are obeyed they basically hand over resposibility concerning sporting regs over to Pirelli (who are not bound by the sporting regs) by just vaguely pointing out all teams should be given the same opportunity. At least they should have either made clear t Pirelli how this should happen or just informed all teams themselves. If anything by acting like they did they did not keep neutral anymore but participated in the conflict by giving the option of one team to take advantage without the other teams being noticed.
WhiteBlue wrote:
We do know that a 2014 tyre test with current 2013 machinery is legal if it is undertaken by Pirelli. They are allowed to test. So the matter for the tribunal is simply to decide whether the Barcelona test qualifies as a Pirelli test with Mercedes support or not. If they find that Mercedes themselves ran the test there will be punishment. But I have my doubts that Ross is so dumb to put himself at risk in such a way. He is an old fox in that business. He will have made sure that he had some circumstances in the test that make legal precedents applicable. He sounded awfully confident when he was officially commenting in the press conference. You do not speak that way unless you have a killer hand to uncover to speak in poker terms.
