Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery has repeated at Korea that F1's sole tyre suppliers need to have more relevant tyre testing if it is to develop solid and reliable tyres for the 2014 season.
It also explicitly points out the involvement of Mercedes' race team.WhiteBlue wrote:[...]
I have read that report by Cooper and I must say that it shows a great effort by Pirelli to fire wall the car generated data from the car provider.
[...]
I would not bet the house on Cooper being accurate with the assertion that the regular team was involved. We know for certain that the drivers were. That quotation could well be speculation on Cooper's part. But it is a good point which should be considered.bhallg2k wrote:It also explicitly points out the involvement of Mercedes' race team.The contents underline the huge contrast with how the Barcelona Mercedes test was run, in total secrecy and with the regular team and drivers involved.
I suggest we agree on having a disagreement over the issue. I have no intention to discuss obtuseness or other personal attributes with you. I find your post lacking in respect and do not want to continue the dispute.Pierce89 wrote:I never said the entire team was there and you know there aren't specifics available about exactly which personell were there. But, you know as well as I do, that you're just being obtuse. There's no chance on this Earth that the 2013 Merc was run without the presence of MGP engineers. To suggest otherwise is just being argumentative and disingenuous. Please don't behave in that fashion when we're trying to have a legitimate conversation.
You are making a good point. The more I have to wonder why nobody in Canada asked the drivers who they were talking to and what kind of program they tested. The Lotus test program reported by Cooper seems to indicate that usually the entire test program (called run plan) is designed by Pirelli.kaller wrote:Actually I'm a little bit surprise that the question who "ran" the test is associated with the question who has seen which kind of data. They way I see it (and Toto was quoted) it is about who generated the data. Who evaluated the data is totally different and has nothing to with who ran the tests. To me "running a test" means giving directions and conditions, tell the people what has to be done. Of course the defense would be easier for Merc if they can prove that did not see much data, but I don't think it is a requirement for their defense to succeed.
One would assume that this was equally done in the Barcelona test with the Merc car.Pirelli test document seen by Adam Cooper wrote:We will share a run plan in the morning of each test day and we will keep representatives updated with a short briefing during the lunch break (if planned) and at the end of each test day. We will communicate the timetable of the briefing in due time. The briefing will be managed by our F1 Team Coordinator, Massimiliano Damiani, and no other people involved in the test from Pirelli, Lotus, Renault, Rennwerk or McLaren Electronics will be authorized to speak with anybody unless specifically decided by Pirelli. Our test drivers are not authorized to speak with Teams’ representatives and Teams’ representatives won’t be equipped with radios. The plan is decided by Pirelli at its sole discretion and can be modified only by Pirelli test coordinator.
It has emerged that Pirelli had approached Red Bull and Ferrari to use their current cars for a tyre test, but world champion team boss Christian Horner declined because of his reservations about the rules, as did the Maranello team.
“Of course we said no,” Ferrari spokesman Renato Bisignani told Brazil’s O Estado de S.Paulo newspaper, confirming that the Italian team also turned down an approach from Pirelli.
“The regulations prohibit the use of a car from this year,” he added, clarifying that Ferrari’s Pirelli tyre test just after Bahrain was with a 2011 car.
The general consensus in Formula 1 circles is that Mercedes will be found guilty and penalised in some manner.
“I don’t know whether Mercedes will have points deducted or Ross Brawn will lose his job, but I do think there will be penalties because something was not quite right,” F1 team owner turned pundit Eddie Jordan said on Servus TV. (GMM)
http://grandprix247.com/2013/06/12/ferr ... -2013-car/
Well, maybe Eddie Jordan and Renato Bisignani just haven't been reading this thread often enough to catch WhiteBlue's posts 'debunking' the whole thing...SectorOne wrote:It has emerged that Pirelli had approached Red Bull and Ferrari to use their current cars for a tyre test, but world champion team boss Christian Horner declined because of his reservations about the rules, as did the Maranello team.
“Of course we said no,” Ferrari spokesman Renato Bisignani told Brazil’s O Estado de S.Paulo newspaper, confirming that the Italian team also turned down an approach from Pirelli.
“The regulations prohibit the use of a car from this year,” he added, clarifying that Ferrari’s Pirelli tyre test just after Bahrain was with a 2011 car.
The general consensus in Formula 1 circles is that Mercedes will be found guilty and penalised in some manner.
“I don’t know whether Mercedes will have points deducted or Ross Brawn will lose his job, but I do think there will be penalties because something was not quite right,” F1 team owner turned pundit Eddie Jordan said on Servus TV. (GMM)
http://grandprix247.com/2013/06/12/ferr ... -2013-car/
Or more likely Eddie and Renato have not given much thought to the legal aspects, which would be natural given their background. The IT can still hand out a guilty verdict if they think Merc effectively ran the test. But the people who sit in the tribunal are lawyers with some sporting experience. They will appreciate the points in Mercedes's defence much easier because it is their business to understand such things.GTSpeedster wrote: Well, maybe Eddie Jordan and Renato Bisignani just haven't been reading this thread often enough to catch WhiteBlue's posts 'debunking' the whole thing...
As opposed to you I'm sure. I mean, given your natural background...WhiteBlue wrote:Or more likely Eddie and Renato have not given much thought to the legal aspects, which would be natural given their background.GTSpeedster wrote: Well, maybe Eddie Jordan and Renato Bisignani just haven't been reading this thread often enough to catch WhiteBlue's posts 'debunking' the whole thing...
Oh, it's their business to understand such things? So Mercedes is definitely in the clear then! I'm glad we cleared that up.WhiteBlue wrote:The IT can still hand out a guilty verdict if they think Merc effectively ran the test. But the people who sit in the tribunal are lawyers with some sporting experience. They will appreciate the points in Mercedes's defence much easier because it is their business to understand such things.
Oh, WB, really!? This is F1 and by now we all know that nothing is as it seems - regardless of who's behind the desk.WhiteBlue wrote:http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... 2011_0.pdf
Biographies of the IT judges. All of these people have extensive legal and/or sporting experience. I think they can be trusted to get to the bottom of this story and make the necessary decisions. At least I have more trust in them than in some home grown vigilantes who pass guilty verdicts before even knowing all the relevant facts.
While the FIA readies to analyse a possible breach of the official rules, Germany's Sport Bild claims Mercedes also broke an explicit gentleman's agreement between the teams when it ran its 'secret' test in May.
The magazine published a copy of the signed 'Testing Agreement 2013', featuring the signature of every team boss, including the under-fire Ross Brawn.
The document shows that F1's eleven teams agreed that in the event Pirelli wanted to run development testing for 2014, any test would have to be jointly approved by the testing committee - the teams - and the FIA.
"The document raises massive questions about Mercedes' credibility," said Sport Bild.
We'll likely see a pivot toward Ferrari, because, as we all know, Mercedes wasn't involved in the "secret" Barcelona test. That was merely the current Mercedes team principal allowing former Toyota engineers to use current Mercedes machinery, current Mercedes drivers, and the current Mercedes race team to conduct a blind test for Pirelli in which no one at Mercedes knew what was being tested (drivers don't count).GTSpeedster wrote:Let the 'debunking' begin.
