Pirelli 2013

[Tim.Wright]

i get what your saying. but are the fia saying that it would have been ok to run the 2013 car if all teams were invited? then if that is the case then its not mercs fault pirelli didn't invite all the teams. I agree, merc have been ignorant but at the same time the water is very murky

I'm not so educated in the rules, but is there anything in the rules which say its ok for a team to test if the other teams are invited?

My understanding is that clause is only in the Pirelli contract.

[banibhusan]

i get what your saying. but are the fia saying that it would have been ok to run the 2013 car if all teams were invited? then if that is the case then its not mercs fault pirelli didn't invite all the teams. I agree, merc have been ignorant but at the same time the water is very murky

Actually, that's more than enough to punish Mercedes. Doesn't matter whether FIA or Pirelli were right about the test or not. The only way Merc can get out of this without punishment is if they have a formal conversation with both Pirelli and FIA saying you are allowed to test with 2013 car with the race team and race drivers. I am guessing, since they don't, they will face the sharp end of the stick.

[Huntresa]

Go back and read the FIA statements. They had no idea that the test happened, only that it could be feasible.

I dont see anything in that statement that says they didnt know ? Just how the question was formulated.

[wunderkind]

I very much doubt the FIA didn't know the Pirelli-Mercedes test took place right after the Barcelona GP. They are just covering their behinds.

[astracrazy]

Yeah but the FIA didnt do anything when they knew Merc broke the rules, THATS MY POINT!

But do we know at which point the FIA knew, that Mercedes and Pirelli actually did a test with a 2013 car and did not inform all the other teams? Only with this information available the FIA would be able to investigate.

surely the FIA would have noticed Merc stayed put in Barcelona and put 2 and 2 together (as in a few weeks ago they were talking about doing a test)

[Phil]

Merc will walk away from this scott free. They took part in an illegal test, yes. But was lead to believe it was legal - that may be by Charlie saying its ok or/and in trusting pirelli will take the correct steps to comply with the fia guidelines and trusting the fia will make sure those guideline were met before the test took place

I'm not so sure. I would think that the teams have a certain responsability to know the rules. Although, by them getting in touch with Charlie shows that their intent was good. They wanted clarification that, since their 2011 car was not available, if they could use the 2013 car. I believe, from the live-ticker, it was said or implied that this was okay, as long as the test wasn't run by them, but by Pirelli. So, Mercedes probably thought - okay, it's not our test, we are testing for Pirelli.

The problem is now that it wasn't transparent (the other teams weren't invited or informed) and apparently, Mercedes had some knowlege of this. At 10:50 in the AMuS ticker, Mark Howard reads that the Mercedes Engineer Andew Shovlin sais the reason why Mercedes joined in the test, was so that they could help with the delamination problems, that occured 8 times and two with Mercedes cars. One of them caused significant damage to Lewis Hamiltons car in Bahrain and that this from safety-point-of-view, is unacceptable. They maintain that the results gathered in this test would benefit all teams. If Pirelli had invited or informed other teams of this test, it would have likely been vetoed and cancelled. This would have been in direct contradiction to the point that all teams must by the rules be able to garantee the safety on their cars. So who's decision was it to not inform the teams? Pirellis or Mercedes? This is IMO not that clear from the AMuS ticker.

So, in other words, if I am correct in thinking that Mercedes had knowlege that they were doing something that wouldn't be allowed, then this makes it IMO a rather difficult case to defend. You can't do something illegal and justify it by saying you're effectively doing the teams a favor or giving an indication why you were okay to go along with it, knowing that other teams would likely veto it...

[Blanchimont]

Now it's Mercedes' turn, represented by Paul Harris:

"Pirelli organised and payed the test and set the testing plan, which contained to intentially produce tyre flat spots."

[Tim.Wright]

Can someone answer me this:

Is there anything in the rules (NOT the Pirelli contract) which allows testing if all teams are in agreeance?

[Huntresa]

Can someone answer me this:

Is there anything in the rules (NOT the Pirelli contract) which allows testing if all teams are in agreeance?

No there shouldnt be and there prob isnt. I dunno why Charlie and the FIA made it up, but i guess to cover backs and cause they knew Pirelli were entitled to a test.

[banibhusan]

Now it's Mercedes' turn, represented by Paul Harris:

"Pirelli organised and payed the test and set the testing plan, which contained to intentially produce tyre flat spots."

WTF!! How does it make any sense at all when Pirelli claims they were testing 90% for 2014 and 10% for 2013??

[Cam]

Go back and read the FIA statements. They had no idea that the test happened, only that it could be feasible.

I dont see anything in that statement that says they didnt know ? Just how the question was formulated.

A few selective memories I see.

'Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA such a development test could be possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver, and that such tests would be conditional upon every single team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity.

'Following this communication, the FIA received no further information about a possible test from Pirelli or Mercedes-AMG.
'Furthermore, the FIA received no confirmation that all teams had been given an opportunity to take part in this test.'

[Huntresa]

Now it's Mercedes' turn, represented by Paul Harris:

"Pirelli organised and payed the test and set the testing plan, which contained to intentially produce tyre flat spots."

WTF!! How does it make any sense at all when Pirelli claims they were testing 90% for 2014 and 10% for 2013??

What? They started by testing Flat Spots, thats how i read it ?

[Huntresa]

Go back and read the FIA statements. They had no idea that the test happened, only that it could be feasible.

I dont see anything in that statement that says they didnt know ? Just how the question was formulated.

A few selective memories I see.

'Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA such a development test could be possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver, and that such tests would be conditional upon every single team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity.

'Following this communication, the FIA received no further information about a possible test from Pirelli or Mercedes-AMG.
'Furthermore, the FIA received no confirmation that all teams had been given an opportunity to take part in this test.'

And thats not the statement you linked on the previous page, which is the statement i answerd on.

[banibhusan]

What I am trying to understand is how is 2013 car relevant for what explanation is given. Apologies if I didn't convey myself properly.

[astracrazy]

where is this AMuS ticker people are using to see whats happening?