Pirelli 2013

[turbof1]

Interesting, Pirelli saying the tires is not the cause for Mercedes win.

"[It's] something they have done," said Hembery.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109211

Not sure i´d agree with that, it seems these tires are less sensitive to thermal deg, which was the Merc´s achilles heel.
But i´m no tire expert so maybe they do have found something. Maybe it´s the rubber strip we all talked about pages ago.

Next they tell us Cinderella, Snow White and Lord of the Rings are non-fictional parts of human history.
The tyres certainly helped Mercedes out a bit. Pirelli should stop the denial culture. At a point it becomes comical.

[OppositeLock]

Interesting, Pirelli saying the tires is not the cause for Mercedes win.

"[It's] something they have done," said Hembery.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109211

Not sure i´d agree with that, it seems these tires are less sensitive to thermal deg, which was the Merc´s achilles heel.
But i´m no tire expert so maybe they do have found something. Maybe it´s the rubber strip we all talked about pages ago.

Next they tell us Cinderella, Snow White and Lord of the Rings are non-fictional parts of human history.
The tyres certainly helped Mercedes out a bit. Pirelli should stop the denial culture. At a point it becomes comical.

Mercedes are the only ones who know the answer. The rest is speculation.

[Anon123]

Interesting, Pirelli saying the tires is not the cause for Mercedes win.

"[It's] something they have done," said Hembery.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109211

Not sure i´d agree with that, it seems these tires are less sensitive to thermal deg, which was the Merc´s achilles heel.
But i´m no tire expert so maybe they do have found something. Maybe it´s the rubber strip we all talked about pages ago.

Next they tell us Cinderella, Snow White and Lord of the Rings are non-fictional parts of human history.
The tyres certainly helped Mercedes out a bit. Pirelli should stop the denial culture. At a point it becomes comical.

Sam Michael seemed to think the changes were negligible and after the grand prix LDM is the only one whinging which was to be expected, if Helmut Marko or LDM say something it's probably biased nonsense.

[turbof1]

Just to be clear: I don't have anything against the change. It was a necessary one. And it could also have ruined Mercedes their race actually if they got it wrong due the lack of data when they started at friday.

However, the new tyres heat up less. That is simple logic: kevlar belt and a sidewalls which transfer less load. It was a weak point for mercedes. Their issues are very probably eased a bit due the changes, a side effect of a necessary changement in tyres. It isn't merely speculation, it's a reasoned assumption. I do take offense to the fact that Pirelli tries to deny even the possibility.

[theformula]

Just to be clear: I don't have anything against the change. It was a necessary one. And it could also have ruined Mercedes their race actually if they got it wrong due the lack of data when they started at friday.

However, the new tyres heat up less. That is simple logic: kevlar belt and a sidewalls which transfer less load. It was a weak point for mercedes. Their issues are very probably eased a bit due the changes, a side effect of a necessary changement in tyres. It isn't merely speculation, it's a reasoned assumption. I do take offense to the fact that Pirelli tries to deny even the possibility.

Yeah i agree with you, but on the pirelli part, they probably have had enough with the criticism made towards them this season and therefore didn't want to even hint at the fact that the new tyres may have helped the mercs as they wouldn't want to be criticised for "manipulating" the pecking order half way through the season

[raymondu999]

Interesting, Pirelli saying the tires is not the cause for Mercedes win.

"[It's] something they have done," said Hembery.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109211

Not sure i´d agree with that, it seems these tires are less sensitive to thermal deg, which was the Merc´s achilles heel.
But i´m no tire expert so maybe they do have found something. Maybe it´s the rubber strip we all talked about pages ago.

IMO it's still because of the Pirelli test, but not from Mercedes' side. Rather, on the Pirelli side. And no, I'm not suggesting a conspiracy.

When Pirelli tested the Hungary 2013 hybrid tyres on the Merc chassis, it could've seen, "oh whoops. These rears overheat too easily. Let's make the rears a bit more overheat-resilient."

Because the Pirelli test exposed the weaknesses of the W04+Pirelli combo, those weaknesses were the ones to be sorted out, ie - the design of the tyres has come to the design of the car. Much in the way teams have previously suggested that Pirelli designed their tyres around the 2010 Renault's suspension geometry and gave now-Lotus their everlast tyre abilities.

[marcush.]

Interesting, Pirelli saying the tires is not the cause for Mercedes win.

"[It's] something they have done," said Hembery.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109211

Not sure i´d agree with that, it seems these tires are less sensitive to thermal deg, which was the Merc´s achilles heel.
But i´m no tire expert so maybe they do have found something. Maybe it´s the rubber strip we all talked about pages ago.

IMO it's still because of the Pirelli test, but not from Mercedes' side. Rather, on the Pirelli side. And no, I'm not suggesting a conspiracy.

When Pirelli tested the Hungary 2013 hybrid tyres on the Merc chassis, it could've seen, "oh whoops. These rears overheat too easily. Let's make the rears a bit more overheat-resilient."

Because the Pirelli test exposed the weaknesses of the W04+Pirelli combo, those weaknesses were the ones to be sorted out, ie - the design of the tyres has come to the design of the car. Much in the way teams have previously suggested that Pirelli designed their tyres around the 2010 Renault's suspension geometry and gave now-Lotus their everlast tyre abilities.

this was exactly my claim .Pirelli had only W04 as a reference point for their tyre to sort out the isssues they were facing .
Unfortunatelly for the competitors w04 has a very different characteristic in terms of rear tyre stress .Pirelli did the sensible and adapted the tyres to a known quantity and we arrive at a situation were the opposition has lost a considerable advantage vs Mercedes.
interestingly B-teams TR and FI seem to have suffered most...

[SectorOne]

I agree with the above in that because Pirelli had the Merc car, it´s going to build tires based on how that car handled temps and whatnot.

But i don´t think that´s the complete story. Mercedes was actually on it´s way to solving the older tires.
In Silverstone they showed that they could hang with the other people even though it´s the most demanding track in terms of energy put through the tires.

Mercedes has figured out part of the problem but was obviously helped by the new tires.

Edit: also we should not exclude Red Bull, these tires are just as good for their car as Merc´s.
In fact, since the new tires (first in Germany) Red Bull got closer to Mercedes in one lap pace.
Instead of being tenths away they were hundredths.

[Just_a_fan]

It could be as simple as a Pirelli tech, in passing, pointing out something in the data that differs from what they see in the other teams' data. Perhaps all Mercedes needed to do was change a single thing on their car to ease the rear tyre problems.

Sometimes simple solutions are the hardest to see when you've been living with a problem for a while.

[FemiA]

I agree with the above in that because Pirelli had the Merc car, it´s going to build tires based on how that car handled temps and whatnot.

But i don´t think that´s the complete story. Mercedes was actually on it´s way to solving the older tires.
In Silverstone they showed that they could hang with the other people even though it´s the most demanding track in terms of energy put through the tires.

Mercedes has figured out part of the problem but was obviously helped by the new tires.

Edit: also we should not exclude Red Bull, these tires are just as good for their car as Merc´s.
In fact, since the new tires (first in Germany) Red Bull got closer to Mercedes in one lap pace.
Instead of being tenths away they were hundredths.

I think that was because Merc were working on the race pace / tyre durability while RB were working more than Merc on qualifying setup as we saw during recent FPs. I think once Merc are confident about the race pace / tyre management of the car, they should be able to lift the quali pace without too much difficulty.

[dren]

Aren't these "new" tires the old 2012 spec tires?

[CBeck113]

But i don´t think that´s the complete story. Mercedes was actually on it´s way to solving the older tires.
In Silverstone they showed that they could hang with the other people even though it´s the most demanding track in terms of energy put through the tires.

Mercedes was on their way to solve their tire problems for the last three years. I think that the coincidence is simply too obvious: private test, new tires (2012 construction with 2013 compounds), and voila - Mercedes can keep a fast pace in the race (Monaco was the result of their qualifing). The spoils for taking the risk, I guess.

[Holm86]

Aren't these "new" tires the old 2012 spec tires?

No. They are 2012 construction and 2013 compunds. So they are basically a 2012/2013 hybrid.

[dren]

Interesting, Pirelli saying the tires is not the cause for Mercedes win.

"[It's] something they have done," said Hembery.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109211

Not sure i´d agree with that, it seems these tires are less sensitive to thermal deg, which was the Merc´s achilles heel.
But i´m no tire expert so maybe they do have found something. Maybe it´s the rubber strip we all talked about pages ago.

IMO it's still because of the Pirelli test, but not from Mercedes' side. Rather, on the Pirelli side. And no, I'm not suggesting a conspiracy.

When Pirelli tested the Hungary 2013 hybrid tyres on the Merc chassis, it could've seen, "oh whoops. These rears overheat too easily. Let's make the rears a bit more overheat-resilient."

Because the Pirelli test exposed the weaknesses of the W04+Pirelli combo, those weaknesses were the ones to be sorted out, ie - the design of the tyres has come to the design of the car. Much in the way teams have previously suggested that Pirelli designed their tyres around the 2010 Renault's suspension geometry and gave now-Lotus their everlast tyre abilities.

I thought the issue was over safety? Many teams had exploding tires, even FI that has/had good relative use of its tires. The Mercedes just overheated its tires faster than the rest. Mercedes figured out how to make the tires not overheat, but in doing so started to blow them up, just like several other cars did.

The way I see it, there are two issues here. Tire temperature range/degredation and tire construction/failure. While they are somewhat linked, they are certainly separate issues.

Don't forget that Mercedes has changed their rear suspension several times this year. Also, Lotus was still great in the race with the new tires as was Red Bull. Perhaps it has little to do with the tires and more to do with something Mercedes has done? Exactly what Perelli stated.

[Anon123]

I agree with the above in that because Pirelli had the Merc car, it´s going to build tires based on how that car handled temps and whatnot.

But i don´t think that´s the complete story. Mercedes was actually on it´s way to solving the older tires.
In Silverstone they showed that they could hang with the other people even though it´s the most demanding track in terms of energy put through the tires.

Mercedes has figured out part of the problem but was obviously helped by the new tires.

Edit: also we should not exclude Red Bull, these tires are just as good for their car as Merc´s.
In fact, since the new tires (first in Germany) Red Bull got closer to Mercedes in one lap pace.
Instead of being tenths away they were hundredths.

My theory is on the high downforce tracks Red Bull are very close to Mercedes on one lap pace which is why they also qualify very well in the wet (Red Bull's only poles this year have came during damp sessions), on the low downforce tracks it's more about mechanical grip and power which is why I think they had a much bigger edge in Silverstone. I expect there to be a much bigger gap between the cars in Spa.